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-   -   Proposal: Oilers and Sharks - draft day (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=891456)

Roof Daddy 03-15-2011 10:28 PM

Oilers and Sharks - draft day
 
To SJ: Omark, 31st overall (depending who is available)

To EDM: Setoguchi

Not sure if this would entice San Jose or not. Seto and Omark are the same age, Seto obviously the more impressive player, but:

A) Looks like Seto is a 20-20 guy without Thornton (surprise, surprise, Jumbo Joe makes his linemates better). Either way something the Oil lack, unlike the small, skilled Omark, a player the Oilers have in spades.

B) San Jose doesn't really have a very shiny prospect pool outside of Coyle and maybe Doherty. At 31 they may find a quality prospect to strengthen that OR the deal is made before the first rd and they use that pick and their 1st to get a 15-20 guy (McNeil, Puempel, Oleksiak).

C) While they aren't necessarily up against the cap, Seto will be a 2mil guy minimum next year (QO nets him a mandatory 180,000 raise), whereas Omark makes 875,000 (including rookie bonuses). Provides a little extra flexibility to a team more worried about the now.

D) Both guys may thrive in this deal. Outside of Pavelski, the Sharks are a big team up front. Omark, paired with bigger forwards, might gain that little extra time and space that makes a creative player like him that much more dangerous. Who Seto might play with on the Oil is unknown, but no matter what his combination of skating and aggressiveness would be much needed help for the few players (Hall, Jones) that actually chose to play with that type of drive.

Jesus Toews* 03-15-2011 10:36 PM

No thanks. The downgrade from Seto to Omark is not worth that pick no matter how barren our prospect pool is. This team is still trying to win now and while that shouldn't come at the cost of any currently owned picks or prospects, it doesn't mean trading current assets for draft selections in an entry draft as thin as this one is reported to be. If I were Edmonton, I'd add Hemsky to that package and try to pry Jordan Staal from the Pens. Not sure if that's fair value or not, but whatever. Anyway, it's a no from SJ.

lakai17 03-15-2011 10:39 PM

Teams win with small guys too but Edmonton will have time to showcase their talent next season as well. I am a fan of Setoguchi but at the same time I don't want to be handing out "too" much if unnecessary.

syz 03-15-2011 10:47 PM

Not really sold on either player, and neither of them are really necessary for the Oilers. Until Hemsky walks in a year, at least.

lakai17 03-15-2011 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syz (Post 31697375)
Not really sold on either player, and neither of them are really necessary for the Oilers. Until Hemsky walks in a year, at least.

what happens if Hemsky does stay healthy and does exceed 90 points next season?

CommanderShepard15 03-15-2011 10:53 PM

I know this would take alot but how much would Eberle cost the Sharks to get?

He's cheap, a good young player and most importantly he comes up clutch when it counts.

id base a deal around Seto+Doherty/Petrecki+Goalie Prospect of your choice(we have tons of good ones)+1st 2011

Value fair? Should i remove anything/add more?

We could use a player that knows how to score in big games in the playoffs for us...

Kaen 03-15-2011 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckInTheNet (Post 31697508)
I know this would take alot but how much would Eberle cost the Sharks to get?

He's cheap, a good young player and most importantly he comes up clutch when it counts.

id base a deal around Seto+Doherty/Petrecki+Coyle+1st 2011

Value fair? Should i remove anything/add more?

Absolutely unavailable for anything that isn't completely unreasonable.

syz 03-15-2011 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakai17 (Post 31697440)
what happens if Hemsky does stay healthy and does exceed 90 points next season?

Then he gets a raise from whichever team he signs a contract with.

And Omark or Setoguchi wouldn't play on the top 2 lines the whole year.

DuckEatinShark 03-15-2011 10:56 PM

I, for one, wouldn't mind Seto returning next season at around $3 mil per. If we have to clear salary, say good-bye to Huskins.

The 31st pick isn't worth a downgrade from Seto to Omark.

DuckEatinShark 03-15-2011 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckInTheNet (Post 31697508)
I know this would take alot but how much would Eberle cost the Sharks to get?

He's cheap, a good young player and most importantly he comes up clutch when it counts.

id base a deal around Seto+Doherty/Petrecki+Goalie Prospect of your choice(we have tons of good ones)+1st 2011

Value fair? Should i remove anything/add more?

We could use a player that knows how to score in big games in the playoffs for us...

HOLY COW! Massive overpayment. That's a package reserved for the top 10 players in the league. And Eberle is not one of those.

Jesus Toews* 03-15-2011 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckInTheNet (Post 31697508)

id base a deal around Seto+Doherty/Petrecki+Goalie Prospect of your choice(we have tons of good ones)+1st 2011
.

What the hell has Jordan Eberle ever done to be worth that? Christ.

Roof Daddy 03-15-2011 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckInTheNet (Post 31697508)
I know this would take alot but how much would Eberle cost the Sharks to get?

He's cheap, a good young player and most importantly he comes up clutch when it counts.

id base a deal around Seto+Doherty/Petrecki+Goalie Prospect of your choice(we have tons of good ones)+1st 2011

Value fair? Should i remove anything/add more?

We could use a player that knows how to score in big games in the playoffs for us...

Eberle is as untouchable as Hall. I honestly think he's an Oiler for life and the type of guy who takes less to stay there (vs how bad we have to overpay to get any UFA). If you don't know the history, here goes: Eberle grew up an Oiler fan as well as growing up in the same neighbourhood as former Oiler head scout Lorne Davis. Davis became too sick to continue his duties going into 2007-08 (Eberle's draft year), passing away in Dec 07. One of his wishes was for the Oilers to draft Eberle, somehow fate found a way to comply.

So no, that package, nor a superior one would get a deal done. Scoff all you want, but I wouldn't deal him for any player on SJ.

Roof Daddy 03-15-2011 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark (Post 31697645)
HOLY COW! Massive overpayment. That's a package reserved for the top 10 players in the league. And Eberle is not one of those.

Uhhh, what top 10 player are you getting for that?

Jesus Toews* 03-15-2011 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof Daddy (Post 31697814)
Uhhh, what top 10 player are you getting for that?

Obviously none as the package is not worth that but it would also be foolish for the Sharks to swap it for an unproven Eberle. However, absolutely agreed that Edmonton should hang on to Eberle as long as they can even if I didn't know the back story. If they're able to ride their current group (plus whoever they pick up in 2011 and 2012) to a Stanley Cup, I can see Eberle winning a Conn Smythe. Regardless of that rosy projection, homegrown talent is essential in the salary cap era and Eberle is as homegrown as it gets.

Roof Daddy 03-15-2011 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus Toews (Post 31697879)
Obviously none as the package is not worth that but it would also be foolish for the Sharks to swap it for an unproven Eberle. However, absolutely agreed that Edmonton should hang on to Eberle as long as they can even if I didn't know the back story. If they're able to ride their current group (plus whoever they pick up in 2011 and 2012) to a Stanley Cup, I can see Eberle winning a Conn Smythe. Regardless of that rosy projection, homegrown talent is essential in the salary cap era and Eberle is as homegrown as it gets.

Agreed. Glad you understand rather than lambaste me because I realize my previous statement could be volatile, but that is seriously the value I place on Eberle (and from what I can tell, Tambellini as well, as he showed in the Oil change documentary where they talk to Columbus on 2010 draft day, inquiring about 4th overall. Tambo hangs up and laughs and says, "they asked for him. They asked for Eberle.")

Parise09* 03-15-2011 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuckInTheNet (Post 31697508)
I know this would take alot but how much would Eberle cost the Sharks to get?

He's cheap, a good young player and most importantly he comes up clutch when it counts.

id base a deal around Seto+Doherty/Petrecki+Goalie Prospect of your choice(we have tons of good ones)+1st 2011

Value fair? Should i remove anything/add more?

We could use a player that knows how to score in big games in the playoffs for us...

Oilers get HOSED. NO WAY they trade Eberle for expensive, spare parts.

TheJuxtaposer 03-16-2011 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaen (Post 31697553)
Absolutely unavailable for anything that isn't completely unreasonable.

That's pretty unreasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parise09 (Post 31698441)
Oilers get HOSED. NO WAY they trade Eberle for expensive, spare parts.

SPARE PARTS??? That's both the Sharks ' top offensive prospect who's 18 and the 11th ranked in the world, their top defensive prospect, and high picks AND a 30 goal scorer, who will score at 20 any given year only being paid $1.8 M. You are absolutely ridiculous.

zeus3007* 03-16-2011 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parise09 (Post 31698441)
Oilers get HOSED. NO WAY they trade Eberle for expensive, spare parts.

The Oilers would need something the Sharks would never give up in a deal for Eberle, a massive overpayment, probably Couture and SJ's first. Of course SJ says no way to that, but that's how much the Oilers vale Eberle.

TheJuxtaposer 03-16-2011 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeus3007 (Post 31699325)
The Oilers would need something the Sharks would never give up in a deal for Eberle, a massive overpayment, probably Couture and SJ's first. Of course SJ says no way to that, but that's how much the Oilers vale Eberle.

Couture and a 1st? How much better than Couture do you think Eberle is going to be?

Mafoofoo 03-16-2011 01:41 AM

Lets stop the pissing match between the two teams before it gets out of hand.


Plus everyone knows Couture is better than Eberle and always will be




:sarcasm:

thadd 03-16-2011 03:07 AM

Don't see why either team does this.

San Jose downgrades for a 2nd rounder in a weak draft... while Edmonton takes their chances with someone who may or may not work out long term with their team while letting go of a second rounder.

Blades of Glory 03-16-2011 04:08 AM

Setoguchi is the perfect winger for Joe Thornton and his presence on Thornton's wing is a vital part of the Sharks' offense. Because Setoguchi possesses incredible speed, he forces defenders to back off Thornton just long enough to give him a few extra seconds to make the best possible play with the puck. And because Setoguchi has shown the ability to not only use his speed to find open ice, but also have the top-flight shooting ability to bury a Thornton pass, he is the ideal right wing for Thornton. I can't tell you how important Setoguchi is to the Sharks' offensive system. He is usually the first forechecker in deep and his speed combined with his physical play gives opposing defenders nightmares because Thornton has rarely ever had two wingers that are both gifted goal-scorers and extremely fast, thus being capable of creating turnovers with a physical forecheck and concurrently having the hands to put away a pass from one of the hardest passers in NHL history. That finishing ability is the difference between Setoguchi and Milan Michalek, who had blinding speed but hands of stone. Generally, Thornton has been saddled with wingers who were either statues with a decent shot or speed demons with no shot. Setoguchi and Marleau give him two wingers with both attributes.

The Sharks are having a bad offensive season, but it is by every standard an aberration. A lot of it has to do with the sudden change in goaltenders and the team going from the decade of comfort that Nabokov provided to the relatively unknown Niemi. They only now have started to get a feel on Niemi, and what they can and can't do with him in net. Either way, the only way Setoguchi is moved is if it's in a deal for a highly-regarded young defenseman. San Jose has no need to move a vital part of it's top line for a rather significant downgrade in Omark and a second round pick in a weak draft. The Sharks don't need any more playmakers up front. They have one of the best playmakers of all-time in Thornton and two very good passing wingers in Heatley and Clowe. In fact, they really don't need any more offense, period. We've said this many times, but since Chris Pronger was dealt to Anaheim, the Oilers and Sharks make horrible trading partners. Pronger was the only player that realistically created a match for both teams, but DW was too conservative and would not give the Oilers what they wanted.

luiginb 03-16-2011 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof Daddy (Post 31696970)
To SJ: Omark, 31st overall (depending who is available)

To EDM: Setoguchi

Throw in Rajala, and I'd do it. Omark has some chances to end up better than Setoguchi (points-wise at least, goals-wise IDK), and Rajala is intriguing. However, the Oilers do get a 24 y.o. former 30 goal scorer, thus the 3 men package.

thadd 03-16-2011 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luiginb (Post 31700421)
Throw in Rajala, and I'd do it. Omark has some chances to end up better than Setoguchi (points-wise at least, goals-wise IDK), and Rajala is intriguing. However, the Oilers do get a 24 y.o. former 30 goal scorer, thus the 3 men package.

I really hope I read that. I'm under the impression that you're suggesting Edmonton give up Rajala, a 2nd rounder and Omark for Setoguchi. That's just flat out insane.

Setoguchi takes a few too many games off to injury for my liking and doesn't produce as much as he should considering the talent he's got around him.

On pace for 34 points in 73 games this year. (0 points in last 3GP)
36 points in 70 games last year.
65 points in 81 games 2 years ago.

He's 2 years removed from having an impressive season. Why is Edmonton going to pay so much for this guy again?

:help:

Blades of Glory 03-16-2011 07:00 AM

Setoguchi had significant injury issues for most of last season and the first three months of this year. He started last year on a line with Thornton and Marleau, and had 7 goals and 9 points in the first 11 games of the season. But he suffered a leg injury against the Thrashers in late October, missed 7 games, came back, and went down again a week later, this time for 5 games. Unfortunately for Setoguchi, during the first game he missed due to the second injury, the Sharks decided to put Heatley, Thornton, and Marleau together, and they responded with 4 goals and 4 assists in a shellacking of the Flyers. Setoguchi was not fully healthy until March, by which time the Sharks' top line consisted of a center that was second in the league in assists and two wingers that finished 1-2 in goals amongst Western Conference players. Still, Setoguchi played well with Pavelski and Clowe down the stretch and was absolutely brilliant in the postseason.

This year, it was really not all that different. He started slowly and had injury issues until January. Then, in February, he got hot, and now should pot around 25 goals after looking like he might not hit double digits for a while. His assist numbers are down because the scoring of the Sharks' top forwards is down. He's 24 years old, will have three consecutive 20+ goal seasons after this year, and is two seasons removed from scoring 31 goals and 65 points.

I can understand if Oiler fans are hesitant to pay a hefty price for him, but honestly, the original package is laughable. Linus Omark is one month younger than Setoguchi. He has 3 career goals and makes Kyle Wellwood look tough. 11 hits? I mean, really? Setoguchi's physical play is a huge part of the Sharks' top line. At very worst, Setoguchi would give the Oilers a surefire 20 goal-scorer next year, something that they don't have aside from Taylor Hall and possibly Sam Gagner. I love the young talent that Edmonton has, but Omark is pretty low on the list of future stars on that team.


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