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-   -   ATD 2011 Lineup Advice Thread II (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=895535)

Velociraptor 03-25-2011 09:43 PM

ATD 2011 Lineup Advice Thread II
 
First Thread

Continue all lineup discussion and advice here.

Jafar 03-26-2011 07:12 PM

At this point , which combos would you like more:

Wendel Clark - Savard - Pronovost
Geoff Courtnall - C - Kovalev

Geoff Courtnall - Savard - Pronovost
Wendel Clark - C - Kovalev

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 07:24 PM

What are courtnall's scoring finishes again?

Wendel Clark was never a top 30 scorer in the NHL.

Jafar 03-26-2011 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 31927434)
What are courtnall's scoring finishes again?

Wendel Clark was never a top 30 scorer.

I'm not sure but he's got no top 10 finishes in normal goals , assists or points , he's got one top 10 even strenght goal but overall I drafted Courtnall for his overall game more than for his finishes.Planned to use him as the 4th line glue guy and he's got SOME offensive touch , and he's a very good playoff performer at this point.Thinking about it it doesnt seem to make a lot of differance one or the other.

He's got two top 10 game winning goal including league leader one year.

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 07:30 PM

Reen, I really don't think you can win with three pure scoring lines. I have three scoring lines myself, but that's a luxury having an elite two way center affords me. I also have a defensive left winger on every line.

You seem to be building 3 lines that aren't going to be able to handle things in their own zone, and I don't think that's a recipe for success.

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 07:32 PM

What are courtnall's defensive credentials?

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 07:33 PM

You can find out scoring finishes on hockey reference past the top 10, but you have to go season by season through the 'skaters statistics' sorted by points.

Jafar 03-26-2011 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 31927660)
Reen, I really don't think you can win with three pure scoring lines. I have three scoring lines myself, but that's a luxury having an elite two way center affords me. I also have a defensive left winger on every line.

You seem to be building 3 lines that aren't going to be able to handle things in their own zone, and I don't think that's a recipe for success.

Why not if my offense is better than the majority of the league?

I also didn't draft my 4th line center yet.
On my first line I will have the puck way more often than not and Gretzky is the best even-strenght player of all-time , by far.Elias isn't bad defensively.

On my second line I have Savard which is an above average offense 2nd line center , Clark for physical and occasionnal offense and Pronovost.I have to make a bio for Pronovost before I can comment whether or not he's got any defensive game.

My 3rd line is all defensive.

My 4th line will depends on the center.

I also think I have an above-average defense but that's just my opinion.

I don't completely disagree with you , but looks like I will have to ride or die with the offensive team I created.

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 07:39 PM

If you rely on the kasper line for every defensive zone draw, you are going to give them more ice time than gretzky. I'm also not a fan of having a flaky offense-only player like kovalev on a 4th line - I think there is zero chance of him playing hard with fourth line ice time.

Believe me, it's better you hear this now than when younger done drafting.

Jafar 03-26-2011 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 31927975)
If you rely on the kasper line for every defensive zone draw, you are going to give them more ice time than gretzky. I'm also not a fan of having a flaky offense-only player like kovalev on a 4th line - I think there is zero chance of him playing hard with fourth line ice time.

Believe me, it's better you hear this now than when younger done drafting.

well Kovalev is also useful on my 2nd unit powerplay , but anyway I dont get this ''you have to take all defensive draws with a defensive line'' , I can also just put Gretzky out there.

what does flaky means

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 07:44 PM

Basically, you should spend your next few picks looking for two way forwards in my opinion. Courtnall might be that guy- I always get him confused with another guy

Jafar 03-26-2011 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 31928150)
Basically, you should spend your next few picks looking for two way forwards in my opinion. Courtnall might be that guy- I always get him confused with another guy

what does flaky means , 3rd time I heard the word dont know what it means

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 08:03 PM

'flake' is slang for someone who is unreliable. It also brings to mind lack of intensity and motivation.

monster_bertuzzi 03-26-2011 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReenMachine (Post 31928179)
what does flaky means , 3rd time I heard the word dont know what it means

Check a dictionary you'll see a pic of ALexei Kovalev.

VanIslander 03-26-2011 08:13 PM

elle est feuilletée

Leafs Forever 03-26-2011 08:13 PM

Would I be notably penalized for using Nicholls as a RW, where he played during his best 1.5 seasons with Gretzky and showed he could really excel, vs a C, where he spent most of his career? He's pretty balanced between goals and assists if it helps.

VanIslander 03-26-2011 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafs Forever (Post 31929148)
Would I be notably penalized for using Nicholls as a RW, where he played during his best 1.5 seasons with Gretzky and showed he could really excel, vs a C, where he spent most of his career?

If you have Gretzky on his line, sure. Otherwise, leave him at his natural position of center.

Gretz makes anybody better so citing a season and a half of boosted stats on Wayne's line means nothing about Bernie's ability at right wing.

Leafs Forever 03-26-2011 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Sabre (Post 31929339)
If you have Gretzky on his line, sure. Otherwise, leave him at his natural position of center.

Gretz makes anybody better so citing a season and a half of boosted stats on Wayne's line means nothing about Bernie's ability at right wing.

It's not like Nicholls was a 100% Gretzky product on the right wing; there's a reason why it was probably the best season by a non-Kurri Gretzky wingman.

TheDevilMadeMe 03-26-2011 08:19 PM

LF, for me it depends on the purpose of the line. If it's a standard 4th line, I think he can hit guys and chip in points fine from the wing

Leafs Forever 03-26-2011 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 31929511)
LF, for me it depends in the purpose of the line. If it's a standard 4th line, I think he can hit guys and chip in points fine from the wing

Depends on your definition of "standard", I suppose. I'm hoping to give Nicholls two good-offensive linemates who also bring good toughness, and if possible, defense (though I accept I'll probably have to sacrifice one.) Probably quasi-offensive, quasi-typical fourth line.

overpass 03-27-2011 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 31927975)
If you rely on the kasper line for every defensive zone draw, you are going to give them more ice time than gretzky. I'm also not a fan of having a flaky offense-only player like kovalev on a 4th line - I think there is zero chance of him playing hard with fourth line ice time.

Believe me, it's better you hear this now than when younger done drafting.

Reen could look to last year's Chicago Blackhawks for a team that went with three "offensive" lines and a defensive fourth line. All top 3 lines had at least a 1.5 ratio of offensive zone faceoffs to defensive zone faceoffs. And the fourth line with John Madden took almost twice as many d-zone draws as o-zone draws. It helped that the Hawks were a great puck possession team.

I think you need at least one strong two-way line in your top 3 lines that can go against the other team's best, though. Chicago had that.

hungryhungryhippy 03-27-2011 12:22 AM

OPTION A:
Richards - Sakic - Cook
Demitra - Johansson - Finnigan

OPTION B:
Demitra - Sakic - Cook
Richards - Johansson - Finnigan

OPTION C:
Demitra - Sakic - Cook
Marleau - Richards - Finnigan

Advice?

TheDevilMadeMe 03-27-2011 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overpass (Post 31935635)
Reen could look to last year's Chicago Blackhawks for a team that went with three "offensive" lines and a defensive fourth line. All top 3 lines had at least a 1.5 ratio of offensive zone faceoffs to defensive zone faceoffs. And the fourth line with John Madden took almost twice as many d-zone draws as o-zone draws. It helped that the Hawks were a great puck possession team.

I think you need at least one strong two-way line in your top 3 lines that can go against the other team's best, though. Chicago had that.

Chicago had the hossa line, which I assume is the two way line you are talking about. But they also had toews centering the top line who is apparently good enough defensively to be drafted here. :)

That's more defense than reen has on his scoring lines, at least so far

TheDevilMadeMe 03-27-2011 12:54 AM

Hhh, is there any proof other than hockey reference that demitra can play left wing?

In his prime, he was listed as C/RW on yahoo fantasy hockey (yes, it's been around that long), and that's how I remember him.

It's possible he did play LW after his prime - if he played it well, I'd buy him there.

Leafs Forever 03-27-2011 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungryhungryhippy (Post 31935679)
OPTION A:
Richards - Sakic - Cook
Demitra - Johansson - Finnigan

OPTION B:
Demitra - Sakic - Cook
Richards - Johansson - Finnigan

OPTION C:
Demitra - Sakic - Cook
Marleau - Richards - Finnigan

Advice?

I'd proably be inclined to Option C, if Demitra (who does have an AST at LW it seems) does get considered legitimate as a LW (which I think I can buy).


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