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-   -   Speculation: All Goalie Talk: "Good chance Roloson might return in 2011/12!" (DC) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=899437)

LightningStrikes 12-03-2010 12:51 AM

All Goalie Talk: "Good chance Roloson might return in 2011/12!" (DC)
 
Yikes.

We're outshooting and outworking the opponent almost every game but both our goalies let in 3 or 4 softies and we lose. This team is a playoff team with a good chance to make some noise but only with steady goaltending. Neither Ellis nor Smith delivered. Only Edmonton has a worse GA/G average - we're even worse than the Islanders.

Ellis: 16 games (13 starts), 3.02 GAA, .888 SV%, 2 SO
Smith: 15 games (13 starts), 3.57 GAA, .872 SV%, 0 SO

Time for a change already, I'd say. So what do you guys think, will Yzerman try and go for Thomas (big salary) or Vokoun (only 1 year left on his contract)? Any less expensive options? Roloson for example, or guys with at least #1 potential on this team like Garon, Schneider, Biron, B. Johnson?

Gman 12-03-2010 01:11 AM

Am I the only thinking we are only going to be seeing Mike Smith and Dan Ellis of the rest of the season?

I don't think Yzerman really wants to trade anyone away unless he's getting a good deal from another time. Maybe a straight up goalie for goalie trade with another team to clear up some cap space would be an ideal trade for SFY.

It seems Yzerman doesn't think we will be going far(playoffs) this year. As i'm sure he would want to make a trade soon because we are losing too many games because of our lack of goaltending. I would imagine this is also disheartening for the rest of players since most of the games they play their ass off, and to lose a game because of crappy goaltending would be frustrating especially for the defenders.

TheDaysOf 04 12-03-2010 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gman (Post 29325810)
Am I the only thinking we are only going to be seeing Mike Smith and Dan Ellis of the rest of the season?

I don't think Yzerman really wants to trade anyone away unless he's getting a good deal from another time. Maybe a straight up goalie for goalie trade with another team to clear up some cap space would be an ideal trade for SFY.

It seems Yzerman doesn't think we will be going far(playoffs) this year. As i'm sure he would want to make a trade soon because we are losing too many games because of our lack of goaltending. I would imagine this is also disheartening for the rest of players since most of the games they play their ass off, and to lose a game because of crappy goaltending would be frustrating especially for the defenders.

I agree. I don't think Yzerman sees this as a year that we challenge for a playoff spot or make a run deep into it. Even though we are currently sitting in 5th I don't see him making a serious move, unless it's too good to pass up on. He just signed Ellis this past off-season so he's not going anywhere, and Smith is done after this season anyway. If someone is coming or going I think you'll only might see it at the trade deadline or in the offseason.

VanTampaFan 12-03-2010 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 (Post 29325939)
I agree. I don't think Yzerman sees this as a year that we challenge for a playoff spot or make a run deep into it. Even though we are currently sitting in 5th I don't see him making a serious move, unless it's too good to pass up on. He just signed Ellis this past off-season so he's not going anywhere, and Smith is done after this season anyway. If someone is coming or going I think you'll only might see it at the trade deadline or in the off season.

I agree mostly with that but don't think we'll see deadline action unless its a good deal. Smith needs to go and is unlikely to be resigned in the NHL. He'd likely find work in Europe though. Yzerman is far from a stupid person. He knows the situation. It all comes down to what he is willing to do to rectify the problem mid season, as in, what assets is he willing to give up and for what gain?

It's not that the lightning are not a playoff contender, the current record states otherwise and the way that they play their games with them all over their opponent most of the time also points to the opposite. But a Stanley Cup team? Definitely not. Well, at least not a clear favorite. Even a serious Tampa fan like myself wouldn't put serious money down on a bet. If Yzerman could get a true number one goalie, but had to give up someone like Connolly or Wishart, I don't support that. Not when the free agent pool is what it is for goalies in the off season. I'd argue that a guy like Jose Theodore signed for what minnesota got him for this coming July 1 would be better off than giving up our depth and would offer far better service than Smith or Ellis.

What I'm getting at is: if a deal can be worked out to acquire a number one goalie who is in his prime and will be a building block for years to come do it. It's needed. But don't give up assets for a temporary fix for a guy in the twilight of his career. It's just not worth it long term.

Xenophobia Catalyst 12-03-2010 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gman (Post 29325810)
Am I the only thinking we are only going to be seeing Mike Smith and Dan Ellis of the rest of the season?

I don't think Yzerman really wants to trade anyone away unless he's getting a good deal from another time. Maybe a straight up goalie for goalie trade with another team to clear up some cap space would be an ideal trade for SFY.

It seems Yzerman doesn't think we will be going far(playoffs) this year. As i'm sure he would want to make a trade soon because we are losing too many games because of our lack of goaltending. I would imagine this is also disheartening for the rest of players since most of the games they play their ass off, and to lose a game because of crappy goaltending would be frustrating especially for the defenders.

Unfortunatly I too have come to this realisation. (this does not mean I cannot still make posts hopeing SFY does something) but with 5mith on the last year of his contract there is a good chance SFY lets him play out this year and then looks to do something in the offseason. Maybe he tries to do something at the deadline but I think SFY knows there really is no quick fix that will not end up hurting us. (trading a prospect or high pick) So there is a very good chance the first 25 games is an idea of what the remaining games will look like for us.

ThunderAlleyNomad 12-03-2010 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cataclysmic Catalyst (Post 29326959)
Unfortunatly I too have come to this realisation. (this does not mean I cannot still make posts hopeing SFY does something) but with 5mith on the last year of his contract there is a good chance SFY lets him play out this year and then looks to do something in the offseason. Maybe he tries to do something at the deadline but I think SFY knows there really is no quick fix that will not end up hurting us. (trading a prospect or high pick) So there is a very good chance the first 25 games is an idea of what the remaining games will look like for us.

I just sobbed a little reading that bolded part.

Does anybody think there is a chance that Desjardins gets called up? The consensus seems to be that Tik won't be ready for at least one more season, but how far along is Desjardins? Or is he basically an AHL goalie anyway?

Blue Dot 12-03-2010 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albatross (Post 29326971)
I just sobbed a little reading that bolded part.

Does anybody think there is a chance that Desjardins gets called up? The consensus seems to be that Tik won't be ready for at least one more season, but how far along is Desjardins? Or is he basically an AHL goalie anyway?

I've seen a lot of Desjardins in the AHL. I don't think he is the NHL starter you are looking for. imho.

BoltSTH 12-03-2010 07:42 AM

Do we still have the rights to Koshechkin? At least at 6' 7"" 231 lbs he fill more of the net.

Felonious Python 12-03-2010 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F0rsbergFan21 (Post 29327060)
I've seen a lot of Desjardins in the AHL. I don't think he is the NHL starter you are looking for. imho.

We're not necessarily looking at Desjardins to be the guy, but to just be better than 5mith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoltSTH (Post 29327273)
Do we still have the rights to Koshechkin? At least at 6' 7"" 231 lbs he fill more of the net.

No use right now, international transfer deadline.

It'd be an unconventional move, but who's available as a free agent? Ray Emery, I think.

I have character concerns about him, and he just got back on the ice last month for the first time since February, but I'd want to at least take a look at him.

Manny Fernandez is retired, but he's also worth a look, if he still wants to play.

We are so screwed right now.

LightningStrikes 12-03-2010 09:06 AM

I agree that most likely we won't see any movement on the G position this season. But I sure hope we will. I don't mind Ellis as a backup goalie, he had several strong games but clearly he's not a 50+ games starter.

Smith cares more about playing the puck than actual netminding. And we thought he had not enough confidence but in reality he has too much and still doesn't get it, it seems. All he does is kill the team's momentum, confidence and motivation.

I mean, how does it feel when you outwork, outshoot, outhustle and outplay your opponent almost every game but in the end you lose anyways - unless you score 5+ goals to compensate for the 4 soft goals let in. Wasn't developing the team's confidence one of Yzerman's big goals before the season? If that's still the case, take action and remove the confidence-killer already. This is far beyond "ah come on, he had a bad night". In 15 games he had 2 solid games. That's 13.3%. Ellis was good in at least half of his games.

At least get one of Tik or Desjardins a chance to breathe NHL air instead of Smith who will be gone after the season at the latest anyways.

Edit: What makes things even worse is that Smitty is a real nice guy. If only he played like he used to... :(

RainingRats 12-03-2010 09:13 AM

Vokoun for 1st round pick, good prospect, salary dump

CSampson 12-03-2010 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainingRats (Post 29328262)
Vokoun for 1st round pick, good prospect, salary dump


1st pending extension.

LightningStrikes 12-03-2010 09:40 AM

Fun stats I also posted on the main board:

Tampa is 2nd in shots against per game-average with 27.7, only St. Louis has a better record with 26.8 SA/G. Source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary

Tampa is 5th in blocked shots with 396. Source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...=realTimeStats

But Tampa also is 29th in goals against per game-average with 3.38, only Edmonton is worse with 3.56 GA/G. Source: http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary

The Fear Boners 12-03-2010 09:48 AM

I know what we're dealing with right now, and I know all thats been said by people but I have one question.

Can this really continue? Can we continue to have numbers as bad as this, is this a phase at least one of the goaltenders is having and will break through? These numbers can't be sustainable, can they? Its like we're discussing James Shields home run rates all over again.

sveiglar 12-03-2010 09:50 AM

What would be Desjardins' waiver status if he was brought up? I know he's 25, so the question is when did he sign his first NHL contract?

Maybe it's the case that calling him up would mean that he was not able to be sent back down without going through waivers. If that, then maybe they'd rather keep him down until absolutely sure they were going to use him at least as a backup going forward (ie moving out one of Smith/Ellis) and not just for a few games.

Anyone know for sure?

TBFan 12-03-2010 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey (Post 29328728)
I know what we're dealing with right now, and I know all thats been said by people but I have one question.

Can this really continue? Can we continue to have numbers as bad as this, is this a phase at least one of the goaltenders is having and will break through? These numbers can't be sustainable, can they? Its like we're discussing James Shields home run rates all over again.

Have you seen Smith play over the past 2 seasons?

CommunistDayKare 12-03-2010 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBFan (Post 29328766)
Have you seen Smith play over the past 2 seasons?

If you can call that playing.

Doctor Drej 12-03-2010 10:28 AM

Were atleast stuck with Ellis until the trade deadline. Smith's days are numbered, you could see after the 4th goal (3rd softie of the night as well) that Boucher was just disgusted and I can't imagine how he wouldn't be fed up with Smith's BS by now. Atleast Ellis stays in the damn net for the most part, and is capable of putting a couple of great games up in a row before he tires out, which then allows Smith to start. If Ellis didn't get lit up in the Philadelphia game, he probably would have taken over the majority of the starts by now, but he did and gave Smith second life, which at the time seemed like a good thing, now its just more painful to see both of them struggle.

The most move(s) we'll probably see this year is a Desjardins call-up unfortunately. Unless the trade deadline totally shakes in our favor and SFY has a good opportunity for a deal like a Roloson or Khabibulin. I'd rather ride out this season with Desjardins and Ellis and try and take a run for Bryzgalov (Could you imagine him being here? :amazed::nod:), Vokoun, or someone else in the offseason.

Though, I realize this is probably a lateral move at best, but any chance Philadelphia would be willing to trade Leighton? He can get it done behind a defense that doesn't give up alot of shots, which is what we do. Or Dallas wanting to trade Raycroft? Yes, I'm somewhat serious. Raycroft has been good the past year and a half with Vancouver and stopped 37 of 38 against Washington last night.. Or Biron from the Rangers, though he isn't likely going anywhere. He's signed to a great deal and has been playing great for them..Wouldn't have to give up much for them, maybe a 6th or 7th rounder at best.

The Fear Boners 12-03-2010 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBFan (Post 29328766)
Have you seen Smith play over the past 2 seasons?

No, as I don't watch hockey.

TBFan 12-03-2010 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey (Post 29329728)
No, as I don't watch hockey.

Well, if you did, then you would have the answers to your questions.

Blue Dot 12-03-2010 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felonious Python (Post 29327401)
We're not necessarily looking at Desjardins to be the guy, but to just be better than 5mith.

I don't think he is that guy either, but in a support role maybe. I def could be wrong but I don't see it in his game for the NHL level.

I was going to suggest trying to get a guy like Lindback or Dekanich from NSH, but with Rinne injured and Dekanich recalled that will be a lot harder.

I like both those guys over Smith. Ellis I am still unsure of, but maybe he has spoiled TB management from the NSH well of goalies!

Harding was a guy I really was hoping TB could land and sadly his season ended fast.

Anyway, I am a bandwagon'ish type fan. Just enjoy watching you guys play and would love to see what you could do w/consistent G play.

Good luck the rest of the way this year!

LightningStrikes 12-03-2010 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey (Post 29329728)
No, as I don't watch hockey.

:laugh:

BoltSonian33 12-03-2010 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBFan (Post 29330161)
Well, if you did, then you would have the answers to your questions.

It seems that you dont understand his questions...

The Fear Boners 12-03-2010 12:01 PM

I'll clarify since a few are riding the bash Malone/Smith bandwagon.

Neither goaltender, at any stretch of their careers, have been statistically this bad. Ever. EVER.

The worst we had was a 13 game stretch when we first got Smith and the team had packed it in for the year. That was .893, and he was playing better than the stats show at the time. The worst Ellis had (min of 12 games) was .900 with three shutouts with Nashville.

Now understand i'm not trying to convince anyone that either of these guys are the solution here, but right now they're both playing at career statistical worsts. BOTH OF THEM. The whole scenario is ridiculous, both of our goaltenders are at absolute worst at any point in their careers.

When else has this happened? I can't think of it EVER happening. Career arks would lead you to believe that they'll at least *somewhat* come correct into career averages rather than falling off the face of a cliff, and if we can see Ellis come back to .900-.905 and Smith .895-.905 range, we'll look a lot better but have a long way to go.

Its just mind boggling how far off the both of them are from career averages at the same time.

RECsGuy* 12-03-2010 12:45 PM

any interest in J.S. Giguere at the deadline? will probably only cost you future considerations.


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