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-   -   ATD 2011 Draft Thread XI - The Aftermath (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=905674)

jarek 04-19-2011 08:48 PM

ATD 2011 Draft Thread XI - The Aftermath
 
Seems like discussion will be ongoing from the 10th thread, so continue posting here since that thread should be locked. seventies, feel free to delete this if you think it's unnecessary.

Jafar 04-19-2011 08:53 PM

well , this is not a good day for the ATD

TheDevilMadeMe 04-19-2011 08:58 PM

Am I the only GM who just finds this hilarious?

Jafar 04-19-2011 09:02 PM

why not encourage this behavior in the future while we're at it

Velociraptor 04-19-2011 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 32506986)
Am I the only GM who just finds this hilarious?

I find it funny how this went unnoticed for such a long time, I don't know if administrators have access to posters Internet Service Provider addresses. If they do, they must've missed it totally. Or VanI must have used 4 different unsuspicious IP addresses.

The sad thing is, that the former commissioner of the ATD had rigged the game from the start of ATD12. I know he explained he went BPA for all of ZM's picks, which means there was no real purpose or chemistry on any of his teams. But the fact that he controlled four different teams and accounts is a real smack in the face, especially for all of us who are here for fun. That's some awful collusion. I just hope the ATD can continue to progress without it being such a mockery. If he wanted these points across, he just should have incessantly stressed them. He didn't have to try to overrule the system, which will most likely ultimately end up as the end of his run on HFBoards ATD.

Too bad.

jarek 04-19-2011 09:05 PM

I actually think this is a very, very serious offense. Like I said before, the credibility of the ATD as a whole has been brought into serious question, ESPECIALLY because it was VI who did this. Essentially, every draft prior to this that VI participated in in any capacity is no longer credible. In lawyer terms, anything in this ATD that could be used as evidence in some form of criminal case would be thrown out immediately due to lack of integrity. I absolutely think this should be dealt with in a serious way.

BillyShoe1721 04-19-2011 09:05 PM

I think it's sad that some people go to this extent for what most of us think is a fun little side activity more than anything.

TheDevilMadeMe 04-19-2011 09:07 PM

Oh, obviously, he needs to be banned from voting, including those votes "The Sabre" sent in.

jarek 04-19-2011 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velociraptor (Post 32507182)
I find it funny how this went unnoticed for such a long time, I don't know if administrators have access to posters Internet Service Provider addresses. If they do, they must've missed it totally. Or VanI must have used 4 different unsuspicious IP addresses.

The sad thing is, that the former commissioner of the ATD had rigged the game from the start of ATD12. I know he explained he went BPA for all of ZM's picks, which means there was no real purpose or chemistry on any of his teams. But the fact that he controlled four different teams and accounts is a real smack in the face, especially for all of us who are here for fun. That's some awful collusion. I just hope the ATD can continue to progress without it being such a mockery. If he wanted these points across, he just should have incessantly stressed them. He didn't have to try to overrule the system, which will most likely ultimately end up as the end of his run on HFBoards ATD.

Too bad.

Oh, I absolutely expect that he will never be allowed to participate in any future ATD under any capacity ever again, and I am quite certain that his IP address will be very closely tracked, since he wasn't outright banned. Unfortunately, if he moves somewhere else, his IP address will be different, and he can come back and, as long as he doesn't give himself away, get back into it pretty easily. The ATD community is generally very accepting of new people, and this sometimes may work against us.

Jafar 04-19-2011 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Wonder (Post 32507322)
Oh, I absolutely expect that he will never be allowed to participate in any future ATD under any capacity ever again, and I am quite certain that his IP address will be very closely tracked, since he wasn't outright banned. Unfortunately, if he moves somewhere else, his IP address will be different, and he can come back and, as long as he doesn't give himself away, get back into it pretty easily. The ATD community is generally very accepting of new people, and this sometimes may work against us.

maybe we should only accept new GM with some hfboards past that are known by at least one of the forum on the site like the lounge or their team board.

TheDevilMadeMe 04-19-2011 09:10 PM

I think it would be more of an issue of integrity if any of VI's teams ever came close to winning.

Maybe if he just focused on one team, he would have actually gotten somewhere.

VanIslander 04-19-2011 09:11 PM

There has only been Zamboni Mania and The Sabre as socks. The mods have found both of them and merged them into the original.

The last 6 years has been great. The socks did not exist prior to ATD11, so the first 13 ATD board drafts I was in are unaffected by the socks.

From first joining ATD2 in 2005 to being the one to suggest regular season rankings and playoff match-ups based on them, to developing the MLDs as a freestanding entity rather than just a couple of extra rounds at the end, to the AAA, AA and Undrafted threads. I have put thousands of hours into this board and have gotten a lot out of it. Whenever I have ran the drafts I have made sure to get outsiders to tally the votes. I added ZM in ATD11 as a stop gap measure to reach the desired team total, and when a replacement wasn't found, it just took off from there, but the best players available were drafted, as far as deemed so. The Sabre was to help get to 40 and then became a substitute for VI when VI needed a break from any responsibility or expectations. Only The Sabre had a team in the ATD 2011 draft, though make up picks late were made by the other two, BPAs it was thought. Perhaps a building ought to have been drafted. Anyways, the integrity of the drafts hasn't suffered much if one examines the details. Banning VanIslander may be your way of cleansing the board of all taint. If so, so be it. Certainly there are no more socks around, as the mods have made it clear they can and did catch them, merging them, as you can see. I assume they all had the same IP address. I certainly did nothing more than open a new account using one of my other email accounts as reference, not hiding and thus eventually found by the mods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Wonder
I absolutely expect that he will never be allowed to participate in any future ATD under any capacity ever again.

That's that.

TheDevilMadeMe 04-19-2011 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReenMachine (Post 32507416)
maybe we should only accept new GM with some hfboards past that are known by at least one of the forum on the site like the lounge or their team board.

Probably a good idea.

Jafar 04-19-2011 09:16 PM

the problem is you thought you were above all laws , and you decided for the others what was fair and what wasn't without their conscent.And now you play the victim that has ''given to the community'' card.

jarek 04-19-2011 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReenMachine (Post 32507416)
maybe we should only accept new GM with some hfboards past that are known by at least one of the forum on the site like the lounge or their team board.

I would approve of this. It is unfortunate, but may have to be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanIslander (Post 32507456)
There has only been Zamboni Mania and The Sabre as socks. The mods have found both of them and merged them into the original.

The last 6 years has been great.

From first joining ATD2 in 2005 to being the one to suggest regular season rankings and playoff match-ups based on them, to developing the MLDs as a freestanding entity rather than just a couple of extra rounds at the end, to the AAA, AA and Undrafted threads. I have put thousands of hours into this board and have gotten a lot out of it. Whenever I have ran the drafts I have made sure to get outsiders to tally the votes. I added ZM in ATD11 as a stop gap measure to reach the desired team total, and when a replacement wasn't found, it just took off from there, but the best players available were drafted, as far as deemed so. The Sabre was to help get to 40 and then became a substitute for VI when VI needed a break from any responsibility or expectations. Only The Sabre had a team in the ATD 2011 draft, though make up picks late were made by the other two, BPAs it was thought. Perhaps a building ought to have been drafted. Anyways, the integrity of the drafts hasn't suffered much if one examines the details. Banning VanIslander may be your way of cleansing the board of all taint. If so, so be it. Certainly there are no more socks around, as the mods have made it clear they can and did catch them, merging them, as you can see. I assume they all had the same IP address. I certainly did nothing more than open a new account using one of my other email accounts as reference, not hiding and thus eventually found by the mods.

That's that.

Regardless of your intentions, what you did was wrong on many levels. Instead of rigging the draft to reach your own goals (and don't try to call it anything else), you should have swallowed your pride and accepted what was there to work with. Everyone but you (and I guess seventies) was fine with less than 40 teams, and everyone would have been fine with less than whatever the amount of teams ZM made the last couple of drafts out to be. Don't expect sympathy from me.

Dreakmur 04-19-2011 09:18 PM

Has VI always been Zamboni Mania, or did he just take over recently? ZM has been around for a while, so if they've always been the same person, that's a big problem.

Didn't The Sabre have quite a few posts when he joined this ATD? That means VI either took over that account or he had been using it for a while.

I know Dwight came up before, and he was cleared because he's from LeafsChat..... but how do we know VI doesn't have accounts on that message board as well? He could very well be some of the posters who have come over.



Not a single GM here can be cleared....

Jafar 04-19-2011 09:20 PM

I can , I'm such a unique person , nobody could imitate that :naughty:

( and here comes the paranoia I talked about couple of post earlier )

TheDevilMadeMe 04-19-2011 09:20 PM

So we have two options moving forward: disqualify all 3 of VIs teams from the playoffs or keep then and just ban him from voting.

I'd lean towards keeping them, but then I've always been a bleeding heart liberal. The makeup teams are obviously losing in the preliminary round anyway.

jarek 04-19-2011 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 32507695)
Has VI always been Zamboni Mania, or did he just take over recently? ZM has been around for a while, so if they've always been the same person, that's a big problem.

Didn't The Sabre have quite a few posts when he joined this ATD? That means VI either took over that account or he had been using it for a while.

I know Dwight came up before, and he was cleared because he's from LeafsChat..... but how do we know VI doesn't have accounts on that message board as well? He could very well be some of the posters who have come over.



Not a single GM here can be cleared....

IP addresses can clear them. At the very least, you can tell the location an IP address came from. VI has largely been overseas, so if an IP address originated from the USA, for example, it is obviously not him. Somehow I doubt that Dwight is VI on Leafschat, however.. to my knowledge, T-Kabs/Zad has been around for ages.

TheDevilMadeMe 04-19-2011 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 32507695)
Has VI always been Zamboni Mania, or did he just take over recently? ZM has been around for a while, so if they've always been the same person, that's a big problem.

Didn't The Sabre have quite a few posts when he joined this ATD? That means VI either took over that account or he had been using it for a while.

I know Dwight came up before, and he was cleared because he's from LeafsChat..... but how do we know VI doesn't have accounts on that message board as well? He could very well be some of the posters who have come over.



Not a single GM here can be cleared....

Mods can track IP addresses.

jarek 04-19-2011 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 32507772)
So we have two options moving forward: disqualify all 3 of VIs teams from the playoffs or keep then and just ban him from voting.

I'd lean towards keeping them, but then I've always been a bleeding heart liberal. The makeup teams are obviously losing in the preliminary round anyway.

I'd keep them and disqualify his votes. As you said, they're all not making it far.. and given this evidence of collusion that has been presented, nobody will likely vote for those teams anyways, just on principle (I know I won't, and I'm very comfortable revealing that).

BillyShoe1721 04-19-2011 09:26 PM

Two things stick out at me:

1. The Sabre's bickering and heckling of seventies about his clock makes so much more sense now.

2. The weird thing that I noticed whenever "The Sabre" made his picks was that he always introduced his picks as "The newest Pirate is...", and I always thought that was weird, and it annoyed me for some reason. That's how VI made his selections in some previous drafts. I only remember this because I used to follow his picks and read his bios closely, but I never made the connection. So, he almost gave himself away, but nobody caught it.

Quote:

The newest Pirate is Brian Skrudland

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cKO9wBQHQO...utograph+5.jpg
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...8#post31966228

Quote:

the newest Twin to play right wing with the Conacher-Cowley duo is the legendary...

Alexander Maltsev

http://www.peoples.ru/sport/hockey/m...maltsev_10.jpg
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...t#post18948958

TheDevilMadeMe 04-19-2011 09:32 PM

The Sabre PMing me out of nowhere the names of random one dimensional right wings to replace Palffy in case of injury (and his smug assurance that Palffy's injuries would be a problem while ignoring the faults of players he never saw) makes sense now too.

Dreakmur 04-19-2011 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boy Wonder (Post 32507782)
IP addresses can clear them.

Are IPs shown when posting from a phone?

jarek 04-19-2011 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreakmur (Post 32508282)
Are IPs shown when posting from a phone?

Yes. If you're connected to the internet, you have an IP address.


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