HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Philadelphia Flyers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21)
-   -   Are we a soft team? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=912194)

Ironmanrulez 05-08-2011 06:29 AM

Are we a soft team?
 
When i look the Van - Chi series, i wonder about the intense and the toughness all game long. The number of checks and the way of checking is way more intense than in every game by the flyers.

Who is a very good checker in the flyer roster?

Carcillo? not really
Powe? yes
Betts? not really
Shelley? never ever to slow
Richards? when he want to, 2 times a year
Carter? whining queen
Giroux? ok look at the check against Bergeron
ODonnel? to slow
Meszaros? yes
Versteeg? not really
Hartnell? sometimes
Pronger? in his first 20 years but not now :shakehead
Timomen? no
Carle? no
Leino? no
Zherdev? work? no
Briere? to small
Nödl? yes
Coburn? if he want time by time

So all in all i think we have a soft team. Dump Penalties is no indication for a tough team, so Hartnell, Carcillo, Shelley are no tough guys to me. We need checking guys who can check hard and fair. Like Clutterbuck or Ballard etc...

just my two cents

straka91* 05-08-2011 06:56 AM

Yep. Shelley aint soft but is slow. A decent #13 heart and soul enforcer. Carcillo got his nut sack cut off by Lavy. I like Powe but Noodle and Zheredev can jump off a cliff for all I care.

captain9nyr 05-08-2011 07:22 AM

I don't think they're necessarily a soft team. I think some of the players they have aren't the type to do tough work in the corners and battle for pucks. I think what they did really well during the early part of the year was getting an odd-man rush off the transition and getting stretch passes up the ice. As the year went on, it became harder and harder to do that because that's the nature of the season.

You don't want a team of Carcillo's and Shelley's for sure. I think you'd just like to see a little Ryan Callahan in some of the bigger names on the team.

JVR looks to have power forward potential for sure, so he's a good candidate.

decadentia 05-08-2011 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez (Post 32929694)
When i look the Van - Chi series, i wonder about the intense and the toughness all game long. The number of checks and the way of checking is way more intense than in every game by the flyers.

Who is a very good checker in the flyer roster?

Carcillo? not really ( 80 hits)
Powe? yes
Betts? not really (82 hits)
Shelley? never ever to slow (Really? 96 hits for a player with incredibly low icetime, and i hate Shelley)
Richards? when he want to, 2 times a year (104 this year actually)
Carter? whining queen (65 hits)
Giroux? ok look at the check against Bergeron (117 hits)
ODonnel? to slow
Meszaros? yes (189 you bet your ass)
Versteeg? not really
Hartnell? sometimes (168 Hits man)
Pronger? in his first 20 years but not now :shakehead
Timonen? no (96 hits)
Carle? no (You expect Carle to be a big hitter?)
Leino? no (You expect Leino to be a big hitter?)
Zherdev? work? no (You expect ZHERDEV to be a big hitter?)
Briere? too small
Nödl? yes
Coburn? if he want time by time (177 hits? )

You forgot JVR with 107 hits

So all in all i think we have a soft team. Dump Penalties is no indication for a tough team, so Hartnell, Carcillo, Shelley are no tough guys to me. We need checking guys who can check hard and fair. Like Clutterbuck or Ballard etc...

just my two cents

Im just curious, but are you a fan of this team? Carcillo and Hartnell don't hit, and aren't tough? But wait, Powe is tough and a good hitter (even though he falls on his ass 24/7 ?...don't get me wrong, i like Powe, but you are underrating other players). I like how some players like Meszaros do hit, and players like Coburn/Hartnell with SLIGHTLY less hits only sometimes.

Also I edited a few for you to help you out. The posts around here are getting ridiculous.

Ironmanrulez 05-08-2011 08:19 AM

check = check?

i speak about hard checks and not a small colision.

And to say it before you get more angry, my english is not good enough to explain exactly what i mean ^^

04' hockey 05-08-2011 08:26 AM

what kind of team are the Flyers ?? all year Lavy sits Carcillo then plays him AND Rinaldo in the playoffs ??

Is this what Richards said about it being a slippery slope when you don't know which way to play ?

finesse all year but lets play a physical style just for the playoffs..... :sarcasm:

they looked like 20 guys who were thrown together just before the playoffs with no game plan.....that's on the coach !
:help:

MsWoof 05-08-2011 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez (Post 32930021)
check = check?

i speak about hard checks and not a small colision.

And to say it before you get more angry, my english is not good enough to explain exactly what i mean ^^

If you're going to come here and rip players about thing without looking at facts with horrid spelling, you're going to be ripped on both the facts and spelling. I've never seen so many whiners on this board in my life.

Giroux tha Damaja 05-08-2011 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez (Post 32930021)
check = check?

i speak about hard checks and not a small colision.

And to say it before you get more angry, my english is not good enough to explain exactly what i mean ^^

The stat keepers in the the Wachovia Center are pretty well known for not giving credit for hits unless they are solid checks. Either way, there is a lot mroe to being tough than throwing a lot of body checks.

The team was tired, not soft.

Ironmanrulez 05-08-2011 09:58 AM

itīs easy to rip me for my bad english... :handclap:

Quote:

The team was tired, not soft.
that is a solid statement, so thx to you. Its something i can think about.

And woof tell me your thoughts why we get ****ed by the bruins? And donīt whine ;)

dookie88 05-08-2011 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez (Post 32930667)
itīs easy to rip me for my bad english... :handclap:



that is a solid statement, so thx to you. Its something i can think about.

And woof tell me your thoughts why we get ****ed by the bruins? And donīt whine ;)

You're not getting ripped for your "bad" english, but if you start a discussion like that, you might want to be able to make a point and defend your standpoint. If you aren't able to, don't start the conversation.
Also your logic is lacking, hitting doesn't make a player tough, it's more about the ability to take a hit.
It's also funny you mention O'Donnell being to slow to hit, might want to ask Evander Kane about that.

The Flyers sucked defensively in the Bosten-series and goaltending was a big issue throughout the whole playoffs. Toughness wasn't a factor (positive or negative), but I think we have to add a bit size upfront.
If you can't really bring the pain to an average-sized team like the Sabres it can become an issue. Especially if you have a lot of small guys at forward (Briere, Giroux, Richards, Leino, Versteeg, Powe) you have to add some size to the mix.

decadentia 05-08-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez (Post 32930667)
itīs easy to rip me for my bad english... :handclap:



that is a solid statement, so thx to you. Its something i can think about.

And woof tell me your thoughts why we get ****ed by the bruins? And donīt whine ;)

Yeah your English is fine, it's making baseless claims that we're talking about.

CptCannon 05-08-2011 11:11 AM

The team is soft, no way around that.

Guys able and willing to throw a big hit that could suck air out of the opposing player and make skip a shift or two (that's the purpose of hitting):

Richards (willing and able, spot-picker and could go for it more often)
Carcillo (always going for it)
Shelley (always willing, most of the time too slow)
Hartnell (willing and able, passes the opportunity too often)
Powe (almost always going for it)
JvR (quite often going for it, needs to put on more muscle to make real impact)
Giroux (similar to JvR, abit better though)
Nodl (similar to JvR)
Meszaros (going for it most of the time)
Coburn (willing and able, could do it more often, improving)
Pronger (monster during p-offs, conserves his energy during reg. season)
O'Donnell (similar to Pronger)

D seems fine but I'd really love a destroyer like Kronwall or Murray on our team that would really make the opposing team rushing plays. Meszaros and Coburn have the potential to become such guy, but they're too nice.

Only four hitters in our top9 forwards: two are spot-pickers and two are youngsters that haven't filled their bodies yet. Yes, I count Nodl, Carcillo and Powe as fourth-liners.

This is why I'd like to have Versteeg replaced with E.Cole, yeah Steeger's trying but most of the time he just bumps off the other guy and Kris' the one falling down.

In my opinion rolling two scoring lines, one shutdown line and one checking line would be great.

JvR-Giroux-Carter
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Carcillo-Richards-Nodl
X-Konopka-Betts
X

X = Rinaldo/Powe


I mean come on, guys on the team always tell how awesome and fun is to be a part of an organization with such past like the 70's, yet way too many of them just don't play hard at all. Some can be given a free-pass due to other strenghts in their game (Leino, Briere) and because they just don't have the size. But guys like Carter, hell.. he's one of the biggest boys on the team and he really could make someone catch their breath for a moment, yet almost always he just circles by and passes the opportunities.


Alot of times this Flyers team doesn't look like the team I fell in love with. The direction is wrong, good thing is the progress is slow and could be turned around pretty quick.

edit. Can't get Cole if we want elite goalie and deep defense corps.

TheLegendkiller 05-08-2011 12:09 PM

Because most of our forwards are Hab-sized. :laugh:

Ironmanrulez 05-08-2011 12:28 PM

I think not my logic is lacking but i uses the wrong words to explain what i wanted to say. Toughness isnīt the right word. I better said we need big hitters on the team! Than you understand me :D

I never want to rip someone, i only want to say, that most of our players arenīt big hitters and that we need some more of them ;D

I hope i explain it better now!

edit: And about Odonnel --> He has a very nice game against Evander Kane no question. But when i look the whole season he isnīt a big hitter.

John Flyers Fan 05-08-2011 02:18 PM

The team isn't soft, but is could certainly stand to get bigger, especially up front.

Not having a healthy Pronger and a healthy Richards definitely effects our physicality.

Slowbro 05-08-2011 02:49 PM

in the OP's defense, they aren't really a soft team but they did get tossed around by the bruins..

regular seasons stats don't mean much if it doesn't translate into the playoffs.

Giroux tha Damaja 05-08-2011 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triqsix (Post 32933653)
in the OP's defense, they aren't really a soft team but they did get tossed around by the bruins..

regular seasons stats don't mean much if it doesn't translate into the playoffs.

The Bruins are pretty big. The Flyers took it as well as you can expect a team to, but they didn't have anything to give back. this wasn't going to be our year IMO.

MsWoof 05-08-2011 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez (Post 32930667)
itīs easy to rip me for my bad english... :handclap:



that is a solid statement, so thx to you. Its something i can think about.

And woof tell me your thoughts why we get ****ed by the bruins? And donīt whine ;)

It's because we have a lot of small players. Giroux hits nicely from time to time but can't maintain it. Richards was injured so he couldn't and shouldn't hit because it almost always includes an arm or hand. Briere is too small and bounces off people. Leino and Versteeg got pounded because they don't keep their head up. In short, Boston came out wanting it more and especially in that one game they made a statement very early.

tuckrr 05-08-2011 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decadentia (Post 32929942)
Im just curious, but are you a fan of this team? Carcillo and Hartnell don't hit, and aren't tough? But wait, Powe is tough and a good hitter (even though he falls on his ass 24/7 ?...don't get me wrong, i like Powe, but you are underrating other players). I like how some players like Meszaros do hit, and players like Coburn/Hartnell with SLIGHTLY less hits only sometimes.

Also I edited a few for you to help you out. The posts around here are getting ridiculous.

I dont think he EXPECTS carle/Leino to hit, but was rather pointing out most of our players are not the physical type...

I actually agree (to a degree)

we have guys with a lot of heart, but not the body to hit (which im fine with...even love at times)
richards
giroux
carcillo
powe

and then we have a few guys who can play physical b/c they are big:
JvR
Meszaros
Coburn (has ABSOLUTELY made physicality a part of his game)
Pronger (when he gets you on the boards/in the slot)

IMO the guys who can carry their weight more would be
versteeg
hartnell
Carter
(carle MAYBE)

what i definitely agree with is maybe we should rethink the TYPES of players we have/WANT to have.

We havent been looking for another JvR, or Carter-sized player who plays less finesse and more physical.

Im all about us getting a Tangradi or big Staal sized guy (any of them).

where are the 6'3" + guys who play like it?
I would not be opposed to us adding some size and physicality to our roster...we look like MTL at times with briere/versteeg/roo (not that roo/versteeg cant be physical, but they wont ever make as big a dent as a JvR would)

and for the record hartnell has not been delivering big hits, he has trouble skating and standing up, let alone knocking the OTHER guy down at times haha

JonnyGaloshes 05-08-2011 05:12 PM

I miss Asham :(

JXC 05-08-2011 07:11 PM

Yes, we're a soft team. It was most notable with Pronger out - absent him there's not a single banger on the blueline corps.

Beef Invictus 05-08-2011 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JXC (Post 32936800)
Yes, we're a soft team. It was most notable with Pronger out - absent him there's not a single banger on the blueline corps.

Mez.

Giroux tha Damaja 05-08-2011 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 32936866)
Mez.

Coburn at times and O'Donnell when he can catch up to them :laugh:.

GoneFullHextall 05-08-2011 07:21 PM

I think we have enough grit. Just in the wrong way. too many guys take stupid lazy penalties. Also this team is not that difficult to play against. Especially at home. including the playoffs they were a sub .500 team.
This isnt a good enough team as constructed. The role players on this team arent very good. Defensively this team looks lost without Pronger.
Are we a soft team? define soft? are we a team that takes too many dumb penalties? yes. are we a tough team to play against? no.

Giroux tha Damaja 05-08-2011 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren (Post 32936970)
I think we have enough grit. Just in the wrong way. too many guys take stupid lazy penalties. Also this team is not that difficult to play against. Especially at home. including the playoffs they were a sub .500 team.
This isnt a good enough team as constructed. The role players on this team arent very good. Defensively this team looks lost without Pronger.
Are we a soft team? define soft? are we a team that takes too many dumb penalties? yes. are we a tough team to play against? no.

They are pretty much the same team that was tearing everything-on-skates a new ******* from the middle of last season to the middle of this season. They got tired. Let them get fresh, perhaps retool a bit, and see how they look in September.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.