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TheZherdev 07-15-2004 08:22 PM

Evaluate the rangers rebuilding
 
How do u guys think sather is doing on the rebuilding? Pls dont look back in the past and say i hate sather so i will bash him on everything. I want you guys to look back no further of this march.

Lets go over the past few months.
-Rangers get balej and 2nd round pick (Graham) for kovy. (WOW) :amazed:
-Ranger pick up a pretty big load of prospects from trading there underachieving players. (Leach trade sure did benefit us) (Awsome)
- Rangers hadan unbelievable draft. They pick up an awsome goalie in montoya and one of the best finish forwards Korpikoski, in the draft. Also picking up a big steal in the 2nd round (Graham). Good job by the scouting staff. :yo:
-The new preseason schedule. Now that might not be much, but i think it was a great idea to put these kids on the road. I could really help the kids to get to know each other. alsd its a dramatic improvement from last years schedule.
-New assistant coaches: Peam and Allaire. Rangers decided to improve wat they been lacking most. Our special teams should definately get a big boost with Peam. As for allarie. Its about time! Rangers didn't even have a goalie coach b4 this. And to pick one as good as he is just gives me a feeling that our goalies are gonna strive.

overall i am very much impressed with the rangers performance of this rebuilding. :yo:

burner10115 07-15-2004 08:32 PM

Same goes for me. I agree with all of that. It's just too bad we decided to do all this 1 yr late. Imagine what we could have if we had started this last yr. :banghead: But, they have done a great job. They still need a #1 center that we can use to help us rebuild, and a LW. Without a #1 Center and LW, we can't rebuild. If we could fill those with some young quality players that we can build around, then our rebuild will be that much better in future years.

I agree w/ the 2 new coaches they signed. They'll help tremendously to get the young guys develop. Should be interesting to see wut happens if we have a season.

pld459666 07-15-2004 09:18 PM

I like the fact that it was actually done and not just lip service
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackburn2727
How do u guys think sather is doing on the rebuilding? Pls dont look back in the past and say i hate sather so i will bash him on everything. I want you guys to look back no further of this march.

Lets go over the past few months.
-Rangers get balej and 2nd round pick (Graham) for kovy. (WOW) :amazed:
-Ranger pick up a pretty big load of prospects from trading there underachieving players. (Leach trade sure did benefit us) (Awsome)
- Rangers hadan unbelievable draft. They pick up an awsome goalie in montoya and one of the best finish forwards Korpikoski, in the draft. Also picking up a big steal in the 2nd round (Graham). Good job by the scouting staff. :yo:
-The new preseason schedule. Now that might not be much, but i think it was a great idea to put these kids on the road. I could really help the kids to get to know each other. alsd its a dramatic improvement from last years schedule.
-New assistant coaches: Peam and Allaire. Rangers decided to improve wat they been lacking most. Our special teams should definately get a big boost with Peam. As for allarie. Its about time! Rangers didn't even have a goalie coach b4 this. And to pick one as good as he is just gives me a feeling that our goalies are gonna strive.

overall i am very much impressed with the rangers performance of this rebuilding. :yo:


But before I go gaga over Balej, he's going to have to produce on the NHL level for me to say that we got a good return on this player.

Same goes for Korpikoski, he along with Kondratiev and Immonen. One of these guys will have to be an above average NHL'er and another has to be a servicable NHl'er for me to say that this was a good deal as well.

So far what we have is potential, potential to be good players, but the same potential to be busts and until they establish one or the other I will keep an even keel on things.

Fish 07-15-2004 10:08 PM

I'm with pld on this one...I don't see any reason to go "wow" just yet. The Rangers have few A-level prospects, and while they certainly have a greater quantity of prospects, questions remain as to the quality.

Balej is a nice player and might turn into a 2nd liner, but you have to remember he has only scored one goal in the NHL so far and has a long ways to go. I don't necessarily see the Leetch trade as a great return yet either...certainly there's some promise in having Korpikoski and Kondratiev, but the former is 17 and the latter has yet to play a game for the Rangers.

As for the draft, I don't see how anyone could evaluate it as "awesome" yet (although I've read reports and comments to that effect). There's probably few if any people on this earth that have seen all of the picks play, and it will be some time before we know what we've really got.

The selection of Renney as coach remains a question mark, though the assistant coaches appear to be good selections on first reading.

Overall I think the Rangers have begun a process that will take some time, and we will see whether they can actually develop and retain the players they have and perhaps equally important whether they can institute a professional approach that results in a team rather than an individual approach.

If I'm grading the process so far I'd give it a C+. The draft was in a difficult year and is likely, as I mentioned before, to take some time to prove one way or another, the prospects for the most part that we got back in the deadline trades are C or B at best.

BobMarleyNYR 07-15-2004 10:35 PM

I think he's done a decent job... when it comes to rebuilding, the Pens are ahead of everyone, but they also started long before anyone else...

Sather has restocked the organization since March. The quantity is outstanding... quality? Yet to be seen. There are a few gems though, no doubt about that.

I think it'll improve as time goes on, but we're definitely on track.

I think some of our developing players look good, especially after the draft... Montoya, Lundqvist, Kondratiev, Korpikoski, Pock, Prucha, Graham, Murray, Jonasen, Dawes... it's a good thing in the works, IMO.

Evgeny Oliker 07-16-2004 01:29 AM

i think giving the rangers a C+ is a bit harsh...they deserve at least a B or a B+. i do think that they got a lot of value in return for their veterans. yes, they didnt get anyone with STAR potential. but look at Calgary, do they have any stars aside from IGINLA??? NOPE. you dont need stars to win in the NHL these days, you need a WELL-ROUNDED TEAM and GREAT GOALTENDING. with the guys the rangers have now, they can build a very well-rounded team and they have 3 great young goalies! more than that, if they ever need a top forward or dman...they can always trade one of those 3 young goalies!
finally, renney, allaire, and pearn are diamonds in the rough! coaching is that 3rd key ingredient, aside from depth and goaltending, that you need to win the CUP! u can have the depth and the goalies, but if u dont have a coach like tortorello or sutter who can instill a successful system you can forget about it!
my prediction: Rangers make the playoffs in 2 years, get to the finals in 6-7 years

Balej20* 07-16-2004 02:02 AM

The only trade where i felt we could have gotten a little more was the deVries trade. He has a very moveable contract, plus he played very well all year. But maybe Rachunek will show me something this year.

As for the rest of the trade...

We got Balej and a 2nd rounder for Montreal to RENT Kovalev for a few games, come on, thats a pretty good steal. Kovalev CANNOT play here, simple as that.

Leetch deal I believe was very much in our favore (i'd like to say steal as well, but will I get bashed for that?) We got Kondratiev, Immonen, a 1st rounder (Korpikoski) and a 2nd rounder next year in a deep draft.

For Malakhov we got Kozak AND a 2nd round pick next year in a deep draft...STEAL!

For Barnaby, we got a 2nd rounder and Liffiton and got to watch McAllister look terrible for a few games. Who woul dhave thought we'd get a 2nd rounder for him

How can you give these trades anything lower than a B+ or A?

As for the draft, im not going to touch that, because i would only be guessing, but from the looks of it, it looks like we did pretty well

Mr. Lack 07-16-2004 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

If I'm grading the process so far I'd give it a C+. The draft was in a difficult year and is likely, as I mentioned before, to take some time to prove one way or another, the prospects for the most part that we got back in the deadline trades are C or B at best.


C+ might be a little tough. Because of the money these guys were making it was hard to believe Sather was able to get the prospects and 2nd round picks from those teams.

I'd give a B+ if it wasn't for the Leetch deal. I still think they should have gotten Steen instead of Kontratiev and Immonen. They traded him early, and could have held out for more.

But the Kovalev deal looks like a steal, and the Ruscinky deal was a steal just to have the chance to sign Umberger. And getting a 2nd round pick in a GREAT 2005 draft and decent prospect like Kozak for Malakov was GRAND LARCENY!

The jury is out on the Barnaby and Simon Deals, although getting a real high second and decent prospect in Liffiton and huge D-man in McCallister was pretty good evn if we gave up a 3rd in it.

The Nedved deal brought was not that impressive. Edmonton has some other B+ prosepects they could have asked for instead of another smallish forward like Hellimen.

Right now....I'll say B because of the 2 extra 2nd round picks in 2005.

Fletch 07-16-2004 01:38 PM

If you say...
 
the rebuild began in March 2004, then I'd have to say the rebuilding has thus far been progressing nicely and hasn't hit many obstacles. But it should be noted that that's been the easiest part of the rebuild - drafting players and trading away players who were UFA on a team going nowhere. So, nothing special's been done thus far. Couple that with the hiring of a goalie coach (which makes you wonder why a full-time guy wasn't hired when Blackburn was drafted - has Sather learned a lesson from that) as well as an assistant with Ottawa who worked on their 'build' and you have many pieces of the puzzle to start growing. Now, you need the prospects to become NHLers and to continue to process of adding quality prospects...that's the tough part, which really hasn't begun as of yet.

little a from da bx 07-17-2004 04:30 PM

in all honesty i think he is doing a pretty good job anyway, but, i dont think we have enough quality prospect , what i mean by that is 1st line prospects and even with second line prospects and even high prospects on d. but the rebuilding is just fresh and starting like5 months ago, for that i do give the @$$hole sather some credit, dont forget maloney he is involved just as much as sather. so they are both doing pretty danm good jobs

klingsor 07-17-2004 04:53 PM

I think the trades Sather made to acquire prospects and draft picks were no-brainers considering the impending new CBA. It was a unique situation in that there were a good number of teams that wanted to take a shot at the Cup this year, because there may not be a season next year.

As for the prospects he acquired and our draft picks, I don't have a clue. Gotta trust our scouts and hope that some of these guys will be the beginning of a core of players that make is into a young, fast exciting team some day.

Just hope that dumb Dolan doesn't expect unrealistic results too soon.

jas 07-17-2004 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klingsor
Just hope that dumb Dolan doesn't expect unrealistic results too soon.


Dumb Dolan? Wasn't he a character on Fat Albert?

BrooklynCanuck 07-17-2004 06:21 PM

B-.

You've done a good job getting depth into the system. However, Tjutin, Montoya, and Korpikoski are the only real solid top notch prospects in the system.

Jessiman was a calculated risk and he may still turn out, but with all the player available I don't thinka home run cut was what was called for. I liked Jessiman's prospects, but the Rangers need players in the near future. A safer pick (Carter, Parise, etc.) would have been wiser.

Montoya was a bit of an odd selection as well. I'd rather have had an Olesz, Tukonen, Smid, Thelen, etc. Goaltending was a strength and there were a lot of other good players there.

Staal Me Up 07-17-2004 06:41 PM

The one thing I am going to liek about this rebuliding period is that we wont have to hear all those ranger bashers say **** about our team. Its not liek that anymore, were younger and personality i think we have a very talented team. Lets hope sather doesnt turn around and start trading these guys away for the Eric Lindors of the NHL.

BrooklynCanuck 07-17-2004 06:55 PM

So that would be a no on my Jessiman and Tjutin for Kevin Stevens proposal?

Staal Me Up 07-17-2004 07:29 PM

nah we can stay away from doing that

free0717 07-17-2004 08:04 PM

What about Umberger?
 
The one thing that didnt happen that should have is the Rangers should have signed Umberger. Big, Strong, can skate like the wind, soft hands, nose for the net,
Sather should have found a way to sign him.

Edge 07-17-2004 08:32 PM

Well I love the first round the Rangers had this year, the second round is a gamble that could go either way.

I still think this team needs an forward to build around as well. Next year's draft will have to yield such a player.

Brooklyn Ranger 07-17-2004 11:52 PM

I agree with Fish, C+ is about right so far. And as Fletch said, once it became obvious even to a Jackass that the organization needed to rebuild, it wasn't hard to make the moves that had to be made (we won't know for years whether Sather got the right prospects or won the trades he made). The next steps are much harder and require much more patience.

BobMarleyNYR 07-18-2004 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge
Well I love the first round the Rangers had this year, the second round is a gamble that could go either way.

I still think this team needs an forward to build around as well. Next year's draft will have to yield such a player.

I guess they were trying to find that forward in Korpikoski... but he probably won't amount to that.

True Blue 07-18-2004 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR
I guess they were trying to find that forward in Korpikoski... but he probably won't amount to that.

I don't think so. I think that they drafted himi in hopes of him playing the opposite wing of Balej. I think the forward that they are looking for, can probably come from next year's draft. That or the #1 defenseman they need. I think that they are holding out hope that Jessiman develops fully and can be augumented by another top forward.

ToMm NYR 07-18-2004 03:21 PM

[QUOTE=Balej20]The only trade where i felt we could have gotten a little more was the deVries trade. He has a very moveable contract, plus he played very well all year. But maybe Rachunek will show me something this year.

They also got Giroux. I actually think that was the best trade they made. It would have been worth it for just Rachunek.

TheZherdev 07-18-2004 04:49 PM

[QUOTE=ToMm NYR]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Balej20
The only trade where i felt we could have gotten a little more was the deVries trade. He has a very moveable contract, plus he played very well all year. But maybe Rachunek will show me something this year.

They also got Giroux. I actually think that was the best trade they made. It would have been worth it for just Rachunek.

r u kidding? de vries was the only solid defender we got. rachunek has yet to prove anything. I no u guys think giroux is one of our top 25 prospects, but i doubt he can make it on an nhl level. Also i woulda liked to get a big defensive defensman rather than the offensive minded rachunek. i have to agree with balej on this one.

Unknownbutfamous 07-18-2004 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackburn2727
r u kidding? de vries was the only solid defender we got. rachunek has yet to prove anything. I no u guys think giroux is one of our top 25 prospects, but i doubt he can make it on an nhl level. Also i woulda liked to get a big defensive defensman rather than the offensive minded rachunek. i have to agree with balej on this one.


I think we could have gotten Rachunek and a 2nd Rounder for De Vries. Lets not forget that de Vries had like 2 more years left on his contract.

The other trade I think we got ripped on is the nedved trade. We should have gotten an extra second rounder, IMO.

klingsor 07-18-2004 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknownbutfamous

The other trade I think we got ripped on is the nedved trade. We should have gotten an extra second rounder, IMO.

That trade seemed a bit fishy (or maybe oily) to me.

Maybe we over-rated Nedved's trade value or maybe Sather was just helping Edmonton and figured with all the trades
being made, he'd slip it in.


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