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-   -   Speculation: Gormley piece: Carle v. Leino? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=919130)

GKJ 05-30-2011 02:31 PM

Gormley piece: Carle v. Leino?
 
http://www.courierpostonline.com/art...|text|Sports|p

Quote:

And then there is the issue of unrestricted free agent Ville Leino.

He wants $3.5 million and, despite a late-season swoon that saw him finish with 19 goals and just three in the playoffs, he could get close to that on the open market. The Flyers would like to keep Leino's salary at about $2.5 million, and it could be difficult to bridge that gap between now and July 1.

...


If we assume Holmgren keeps his core group of forwards intact (minus Leino and Carcillo), he would need to create salary space for a goalie by trading someone from his overpriced blue line. Matt Carle's one-year, $3.4 million salary appears to be the most likely casualty.

...

With Oskars Bartulis, Erik Gustafsson and Kevin Marshall knocking on the door to the NHL, Holmgren may be willing to part with Carle's salary if it means freeing up enough cap space -- about $4 million before the salary cap increase -- to land the goalie the Flyers desperately need.

JVR21 05-30-2011 02:33 PM

Sounds perfect to me.

Beef Invictus 05-30-2011 02:34 PM

yes please.

Edler4Norris 05-30-2011 02:52 PM

Sounds like a good idea with Timonen, Pronger, Coburn and Meszaros entrenched.

GoneFullHextall 05-30-2011 03:04 PM

it makes too much sense.
which is why Holmgren wont do it

Garbage Goal 05-30-2011 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren (Post 33316163)
it makes too much sense.
which is why Holmgren wont do it

Yeppers.

Terence Peterman 05-30-2011 03:13 PM

I'm all for getting rid of Carle and Leino.

lancer247 05-30-2011 03:21 PM

I think Homer will decrease Carle's return by requiring the other team to take walker as part of the deal. Homer isn't the guy that will make a 30 y/o spend two more years in the AHL. He'll send him to another team and let them do it.

Aside from that, I like Carle but he is the most lgical choice to go. Even if it means bringing back OD. I know OD faaded down the stretch but he was solid until he injured his knee. If he is healthy I think he will do OK as #5/6 and PK duties at $1MM.

Interesting that they will qualify Carcillo. I doubt Nodl or Powe make $1MM like Gormley does so maybe Carcillo doesn't go. I think Powe and Nodl are basically the same player and not much different the others in the organization like Kalinski or Wellwood.

Terence Peterman 05-30-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancer247 (Post 33316448)
Interesting that they will qualify Carcillo. I doubt Nodl or Powe make $1MM like Gormley does so maybe Carcillo doesn't go. I think Powe and Nodl are basically the same player and not much different the others in the organization like Kalinski or Wellwood.

I doubt they re-up Carcillo when they've got someone twice as crazy at half the price in Rinaldo.

phillyfanatic 05-30-2011 03:36 PM

We still need to fill Leino's spot. IF we don't have a "very good player" with Briere, then that line is ****. Briere himself has said that line is as good as it is because of Leino and what he brings. So, who are we putting with Briere? I'm fine with losing Leino, I am not fine with losing Leino and getting Briere 2 years ago versus last year. That is a HUGE LOSS for 1 million. Unless Versteeg is capable of what Leino is?

I prefer losing Carle + Versteeg over Carle + Leino.

Terence Peterman 05-30-2011 03:44 PM

Briere two years ago was just fine. It looked better with Leino in the playoffs, but that line hasn't done **** since, what, December?

Put Briere on the wing. Richards-Carter-Giroux (or, for christ's sake, get a real third line center and make Giroux play wing, too) is just fine.

KimiFerrari 05-30-2011 03:57 PM

Leino is not worth 3.5 mill. He has not proven nearly enough, and he is one dimensional. I would love to keep Leino for around 2.75mil, 3mil max depending on how much a goalie costs.

I had a feeling he was holding out for more money the whole season, and when he declined 2 separate 3mill deals, that is hopefully all she wrote.

If we are going to spend close to 4 mil on a forward, then I'd rather try and pick up Gagne again.

GoneFullHextall 05-30-2011 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyfanatic (Post 33316690)
We still need to fill Leino's spot. IF we don't have a "very good player" with Briere, then that line is ****. Briere himself has said that line is as good as it is because of Leino and what he brings. So, who are we putting with Briere? I'm fine with losing Leino, I am not fine with losing Leino and getting Briere 2 years ago versus last year. That is a HUGE LOSS for 1 million. Unless Versteeg is capable of what Leino is?

I prefer losing Carle + Versteeg over Carle + Leino.

You cannot cave in to Leino and his agents demands. Hes a good player, but he is replacable. I think the organization is going to give Versteeg the benefit of the doubt because of his injury.
Leino hasnt done enough to warrant a 3 million plus contract.

Larry44 05-30-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Blaine (Post 33316818)
Briere two years ago was just fine. It looked better with Leino in the playoffs, but that line hasn't done **** since, what, December?

Put Briere on the wing. Richards-Carter-Giroux (or, for christ's sake, get a real third line center and make Giroux play wing, too) is just fine.

Agreed, just replace Leino with Briere.

Put Briere back on right wing with Hartnell at LW and Carter at C. That line was one of the league's best the previous year, even though Briere and Hartnell were playing horribly through their divorces.

Briere's inability to match up against top lines was a huge problem this year in the playoffs. He's just not good enough defensively. Last year he caught fire with Leino and Harts, this year the line fizzled in the second half and Lavy just refused to break them up or fight to get them away from mismatches (see game one vs. Boston) even at home.

sa cyred 05-30-2011 04:08 PM

Leino will get around 3 mil, mostly likely over that. As we can see by most nhl contracts, players who hit 50 points (just see Versteeg) ussually can command over 3 mil per year.

six sigma 05-30-2011 04:39 PM

Quote:

With Oskars Bartulis, Erik Gustafsson and Kevin Marshall knocking on the door to the NHL, Holmgren may be willing to part with Carle's salary if it means freeing up enough cap space -- about $4 million before the salary cap increase -- to land the goalie the Flyers desperately need.
Is Kevin Marshall really knocking on the NHL's door at this point?

GoneFullHextall 05-30-2011 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by six sigma (Post 33317608)
Is Kevin Marshall really knocking on the NHL's door at this point?

I dont think hes really turned that corner yet in development to be consitered a NHL player. With the coaching staff hopefully stabilized and headed in the right direction this is a important year for Marshall because now he has no excuse. If he doesnt show improvement this coming season then its probably time to consiter he wont be a NHL defenseman. At least not in Philly.

phillyfanatic 05-30-2011 04:57 PM

OK, You win. I can live with Hartnell-Carter-Briere as our #2 unit. I love the idea of JVR-Richards/Giroux-Grioux/Richards with someone else as our third line center. Hmmm.....off to cap geek....

VanSciver 05-30-2011 04:58 PM

I'm against trading Carle. The reasons being the following. The Flyers have two 37 year old defenseman who are showing signs of physical decline. One of them , Pronger, just had major back surgery, and it is possible that he could not be ready to start the Season. If you trade Carle, were back in the spot of where they were on 09/10. With a suspect 3rd pair. Timonen and Pronger would also wind up having their minutes extended, which could lead to overuse, wearing them down. And if Carle is traded, and one of the remaining top 4 of Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, and Meszaros would get a significant injury, then what does your D look like?

The area to create cap space from is from the Forwards spot in my opinion. And I wouldn't trade Carter or Richards.

Terence Peterman 05-30-2011 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyfanatic (Post 33317964)
OK, You win. I can live with Hartnell-Carter-Briere as our #2 unit. I love the idea of JVR-Richards/Giroux-Grioux/Richards with someone else as our third line center. Hmmm.....off to cap geek....

Dave Effin Bolland.

Now, if only Chicago would let it happen...Carle for Bolland?:naughty:

GoneFullHextall 05-30-2011 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanSciver (Post 33317985)
I'm against trading Carle. The reasons being the following. The Flyers have two 37 year old defenseman who are showing signs of physical decline. One of them , Pronger, just had major back surgery, and it is possible that he could not be ready to start the Season. If you trade Carle, were back in the spot of where they were on 09/10. With a suspect 3rd pair. Timonen and Pronger would also wind up having their minutes extended, which could lead to overuse, wearing them down. And if Carle is traded, and one of the remaining top 4 of Pronger, Timonen, Coburn, and Meszaros would get a significant injury, then what does your D look like?

The area to create cap space from is from the Forwards spot in my opinion. And I wouldn't trade Carter or Richards.

A declining Pronger and Timonen are better then Matt Carle will ever be defensively.
We have too many forwards that have NTC or NMC in their contracts.

GKJ 05-30-2011 05:19 PM

It doesn't mean we have to have a suspect 3rd pair. With some good coaching and managing, there's no reason that a #5 defender on a contending team has to make more than $2.25M. And that's still a lot.

Carle at that price would be just fine, but he's not. For his defensive shortcomings, it would be ok if he was a 50-point defenseman, like guys such as Ehrhoff or Wisniewski, but he's not. Doesn't help his case that he is a black hole on the power play. This is just too much to bank on his offensive production at even strength.

Trade Carle, probably let Leino walk unless he comes in between $2.3-$2.5. And go hard after Wisniewski, he would be the perfect guy to put in the lineup and take the load off Pronger and Timonen

Spongolium* 05-30-2011 05:36 PM

I would take Erik Cole at 3 million over a 3+ million leino anyday. He was a liability last year. To many turnovers.

VanSciver 05-30-2011 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancer247 (Post 33316448)
I think Homer will decrease Carle's return by requiring the other team to take walker as part of the deal. Homer isn't the guy that will make a 30 y/o spend two more years in the AHL. He'll send him to another team and let them do it.

Aside from that, I like Carle but he is the most lgical choice to go. Even if it means bringing back OD. I know OD faaded down the stretch but he was solid until he injured his knee. If he is healthy I think he will do OK as #5/6 and PK duties at $1MM.

Interesting that they will qualify Carcillo. I doubt Nodl or Powe make $1MM like Gormley does so maybe Carcillo doesn't go. I think Powe and Nodl are basically the same player and not much different the others in the organization like Kalinski or Wellwood.

Carle really isn't the logical choice to go. Powe and Nodl arent the same player. Nodl has scoring line potential. Wellwood is okay, Kalinski is a career AHLer at this point. Nodl is better than both.

Coppy 05-30-2011 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go david krejci 430 (Post 33318291)

Trade Carle, probably let Leino walk unless he comes in between $2.3-$2.5. And go hard after Wisniewski, he would be the perfect guy to put in the lineup and take the load off Pronger and Timonen

I agree with the first part, but Wisniewski could be the top FA defensemen on the market, depending on what happens with the Canucks Free agents. Some team is going to overpay for him much like Brian Campbell a few years ago. I could see him getting 4.5 to 5 per year. He's really only worth 4 I think. Adding Wisniewski would take us out of the running for Bryz/Vokoun unless another piece is moved.


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