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-   -   Player Discussion: Marcus Johansson (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=920182)

Minnich10 06-01-2011 09:24 PM

Marcus Johansson
 
He only had 27 points this year but as a 20 year old center I think he will become a good player. He also had 6 points in 9 playoff games. What do you think about him?

txpd 06-01-2011 09:28 PM

s-t-a-r

Dirtbag59 06-01-2011 09:30 PM

He's terrible. He's extremely slow. Zero vision when it comes to passing. No effort on Defense. The only good thing about him is he's an amazing checker.

Capitlols 06-01-2011 09:32 PM

I know I'm in a minority. I feel as though Mojo will be a solid two-way center, but I don't know that he'll have the offense to be a 2nd line staple for this team.

DCRedhawk21 06-01-2011 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 (Post 33365619)
He's terrible. He's extremely slow. Zero vision when it comes to passing. No effort on Defense. The only good thing about him is he's an amazing checker.


Pretty good when it comes to fisticuffs too.

Devil Dancer 06-01-2011 10:14 PM

Prototypical 2nd line center. 50-60 points, good D.

Dirtbag59 06-01-2011 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCRedhawk21 (Post 33366354)
Pretty good when it comes to fisticuffs too.

Oh yeah, easily the leagues best fighter. I'm pretty sure he could easily embarrass Chuck Liddell in his prime.

Fallschirmyager 06-01-2011 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 (Post 33365619)
He's terrible. He's extremely slow. Zero vision when it comes to passing. No effort on Defense. The only good thing about him is he's an amazing checker.

I thought he was a Swede? :amazed:


If this kid can put together a solid offense to go with the defensive ability he's already showed he will be someone to lock up. Either by long term contract or in GMGM's basement.

BrooklynCapsFan 06-02-2011 12:43 AM

I'm glad this thread was created as I've been wanting to talk about MJ.

On a different thread, I said:

Prorate his best month over a season and you get 22 goals and 27 assists. Which I think is just about his offensive upside. And that's very respectable. Combine it with his speed, physical play and penalty killing and he is imo an excellent 3rd line center.

I really don't see Johansson as an offensive top six center, and I think it's a mistake for the franchise to slot him there. That's a big hole that should be filled with someone capable of performing there and handling the pressure. I don't think MJ is capable of performing as the 2nd line center on a contender (especially not next year) and as far his development is concerned, I think it's idiotic to put those expectations on him.

We've been starved for talent down the middle for 30 years, so our expectations may be skewed. Good second line centers are players like MacDonald, Toews, M Richards etc. The team should focus on getting one of those kinds of centers and letting MJ develop into the 3rd line monster that he clearly is.

Atlas 06-02-2011 01:20 AM

MaJo was impressive this year no doubt. Top end wheels. Good hockey sense. Plays hard all over the ice. But it was a mistake to have him in the NHL this year. His long-term offensive game would've developed better in Sweden or Hershey. He was better than Backstrom in the playoffs but not nearly good enough to be a difference-maker. It was stupid management but that's what we've got right now.

The kid might be a legit #2C. It's impossible to say right now. He shows flashes of being an All-Star and then he becomes merely solid. My guess is a consistent 20G, 30A C. Not a dominant #2C and not a dominant #3C defensively. We'll have to wait and see.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz 06-02-2011 07:21 AM

Can't agree that Toews is a second line center. He was 5th in scoring amongst centers and plays an excellent two-way game. While McDonald's a 2nd line center at this point, he was quite clearly the #1 guy for Anaheim in their Cup run. Similarly, Richards is a perfectly legit #1 center. This is the first year in a while he wasn't the #1 guy in Philly, and that's only because Giroux broke out, not because of his own lack of ability.

Now, while that type of guy would be an ideal #2 behind Backstrom, if the Caps are looking for one of those, they'll be searching for as long as they looked for a true #1 defenseman after Langway.

I'd consider guys like Bergeron and Pavelski to be just fine as #2 centers. Bergeron might actually be a good, safe comparison for Johansson down the line.

ColincampbellOscopy 06-02-2011 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan (Post 33370912)
We've been starved for talent down the middle for 30 years, so our expectations may be skewed. Good second line centers are players like MacDonald, Toews, M Richards etc. The team should focus on getting one of those kinds of centers and letting MJ develop into the 3rd line monster that he clearly is.

I think those guys mentioned, along with Kesler are elite 2nd line Centers and good number 1 centers, but that's probably semantics. I'd classify Johansson in sort of the same light, in that he can be an elite/ideal number 3 in a perfect world, but he won't be out of his league as a number 2 in his best years. If recent history is any indication, though, they'll need to do better than MoJo (barring some unforseen offensive potential) at the 2nd center spot if they want to win a Cup.

ColincampbellOscopy 06-02-2011 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz (Post 33372923)
Bergeron might actually be a good, safe comparison for Johansson down the line.

If Johansson ever hits 70 points, maybe...but he's not flashing that kind of offensive potential to me.

txpd 06-02-2011 07:37 AM

I have a hard time believing that Johansson as a 20 year old has hit his offensive peak. He played the stretch at a 20 goal pace and was an impact player in the playoffs. And that is all he will be able to bring? I see him as a realistic 30 goal scorer in his prime. He's not the playmaker that Backstrom is, so his overall numbers won't approach 19's, but he is going to score at least as many goals as Nick.

Atlas: Who on this team do you like?

Millhaus 06-02-2011 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan (Post 33370912)
I'm glad this thread was created as I've been wanting to talk about MJ.

On a different thread, I said:

Prorate his best month over a season and you get 22 goals and 27 assists. Which I think is just about his offensive upside. And that's very respectable. Combine it with his speed, physical play and penalty killing and he is imo an excellent 3rd line center.

I really don't see Johansson as an offensive top six center, and I think it's a mistake for the franchise to slot him there. That's a big hole that should be filled with someone capable of performing there and handling the pressure. I don't think MJ is capable of performing as the 2nd line center on a contender (especially not next year) and as far his development is concerned, I think it's idiotic to put those expectations on him.

We've been starved for talent down the middle for 30 years, so our expectations may be skewed. Good second line centers are players like MacDonald, Toews, M Richards etc. The team should focus on getting one of those kinds of centers and letting MJ develop into the 3rd line monster that he clearly is.

The days of 50 point guys being 'excellent' 3rd liners and close to point a game guys being 2nd liners were a long time ago.

Toews was 12th in scoring amongst all forwards and there were 89 50+ point forwards in the whole league last year, so extrapolating out Johansson's best month over an entire season makes him a borderline 1st liner.

And I don't get the thinking that his best month of his rookie season being his offensive upside for his career. He is never going to get any better than he was in March? Why? The way he improved between the first and second halves of the season was impressive. Where that improvement ends I don't know but I don't understand why you think it already has.

ColincampbellOscopy 06-02-2011 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txpd (Post 33373034)
I have a hard time believing that Johansson as a 20 year old has hit his offensive peak. He played the stretch at a 20 goal pace and was an impact player in the playoffs. And that is all he will be able to bring? I see him as a realistic 30 goal scorer in his prime. He's not the playmaker that Backstrom is, so his overall numbers won't approach 19's, but he is going to score at least as many goals as Nick.

Atlas: Who on this team do you like?

He was an impact player in the playoffs, but he scored his goals in 1 game. The confidence that he will score goals like Backstrom is strange because Backstrom has always been the better goal scorer at every level going back to Juniors. Johansson could turn out to be the better goal scorer, but there's no history to suggest that. Are you just basing this on Johansson being a better skater? because Backstrom has the better shot.

discobob 06-02-2011 08:02 AM

When discussing his potential as a 2nd round center, it makes me consider whether or not the Caps would be better with him as a #1C. I realize this was done last year as a "shake up", but I never got the impression that it was considered a potential permanent change. He won't be as good as Backstrom, but our first line can still be a very good first line with Johanson, and Backstrom would be an elite #2C. Maybe something like for next year:

Ovechkin, Johanson, Knuble
Semin, Backstrom, Fehr

I'd love someone other than Fehr in that top six, but I don't know who that would be. Neither of those lines would be elite (although OV in 09-10 form would make it so), but they would both be #1 caliber lines.

brs03 06-02-2011 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millhaus (Post 33373077)
The days of 50 point guys being 'excellent' 3rd liners and close to point a game guys being 2nd liners were a long time ago.

Toews was 12th in scoring amongst all forwards and there were 89 50+ point forwards in the whole league last year, so extrapolating out Johansson's best month over an entire season makes him a borderline 1st liner.

And I don't get the thinking that his best month of his rookie season being his offensive upside for his career. He is never going to get any better than he was in March? Why? The way he improved between the first and second halves of the season was impressive. Where that improvement ends I don't know but I don't understand why you think it already has.

Agreed. I guess it makes sense if you qualify everything with the caveat "for a high-scoring team" (because that's the only place you get 60 point guys that are truly 2nd liners in role). The Caps weren't a high scoring team last year, and I have to wonder whether MoJo's production was part of the cause or whether it was one of the effects; did he do too little in the role he was given, contributing to a lack of offense, or did the other circumstances around the team (system etc.) lead to him producing less that his skills should have allowed? Probably a little of both, always hard to tell with rookies.

He has the tools to be a solid 2nd liner. He's got very good, if not great, hands. His speed is above reproach. His vision is clearly there. I think the question has always been how well he would adapt physically, and to my eyes he showed strong progress there last season.

I don't see him topping out at 50 points or whatever his best pace from last season was. I think he can stretch it higher than that (but probably not by a lot). Even if that's all he can give, that is easily very good production from a 2nd liner much less one as strong defensively as he is.

Of course maybe he stalls and never matches that pace again, falling into a more defensive specialist role. I wouldn't put money on it but you never can tell. :dunno:

RandyHolt 06-02-2011 08:11 AM

Play him with Ovi for a year and the full 2 on every PP and he could land 80-100 points. Goals and points are often about linemates TOI and PP's. Assuming our PP ever gets uncorked, no easy task, he can gets some easy points. None came easy this year, he started getting PP time only at years end.

I see his offensive skills as rivaling Backstrom. I think he has a better slapper and is much faster; shows more hustle. He has good vision and I saw a few nice passes from the kid. Nick has him beat on the board work, maybe largely because of his girth. Time will tell, he should fill out more.

When I think about him and Backstrom this year, Marcus's plays stand out more in my mind.

ColincampbellOscopy 06-02-2011 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyHolt (Post 33373307)
When I think about him and Backstrom this year, Marcus's plays stand out more in my mind.

I think that's to be expected. 60% of the time, flashy stands out more than cerebral, every time.

hoopla 06-02-2011 08:39 AM

mojo's got great speed and hockey sence for sure. But to me, an elite NHL center must win majority of his face offs. especially in special teams situations. mojo doesnt have that. once he starts winning those faceoffs then he'd be even better. maybe even get invited to the Swedish national team. :laugh:

Millhaus 06-02-2011 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopla (Post 33373603)
mojo's got great speed and hockey sence for sure. But to me, an elite NHL center must win majority of his face offs. especially in special teams situations. mojo doesnt have that. once he starts winning those faceoffs then he'd be even better. maybe even get invited to the Swedish national team. :laugh:

IMO describing someone as an elite NHL center means he is at worst a top 10-15 centerman and I don't expect Johansson to ever reach that level.

As far as faceoffs go in his rookie season Backstrom only won 46.3% of his faceoffs and since he has steadily improved to winning 52.5% this year. Obviously Johansson has farther to go to get to that 50% mark having only won 40.5% of his draws this year but I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that he can get there down the road.

brs03 06-02-2011 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColincampbellOscopy (Post 33373556)
I think that's to be expected. 60% of the time, flashy stands out more than cerebral, every time.

Also, a new guy with few expectations attached is going to stand out more than an established guy who's production was below par, looking back on it. Fairly or unfairly.

NobodyBeatsTheWiz 06-02-2011 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopla (Post 33373603)
mojo's got great speed and hockey sence for sure. But to me, an elite NHL center must win majority of his face offs. especially in special teams situations. mojo doesnt have that. once he starts winning those faceoffs then he'd be even better. maybe even get invited to the Swedish national team. :laugh:

So none of Stamkos, Staal, Getzlaf, Kopitar, Malkin, and Backstrom are elite NHL centers?

third man in 06-02-2011 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopla (Post 33373603)
mojo's got great speed and hockey sence for sure. But to me, an elite NHL center must win majority of his face offs. especially in special teams situations. mojo doesnt have that. once he starts winning those faceoffs then he'd be even better. maybe even get invited to the Swedish national team. :laugh:

The Faceoffs should come as he matures physically and gets used to the NA game. Remember Backstrom in his rookie year?


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