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-   -   Ryan Suter or Shea Weber (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=921168)

LeafsGetTavares* 06-04-2011 12:05 PM

Ryan Suter or Shea Weber
 
Just a hypothetical question, having a debate with a friend who claims Weber is far superior to Suter.

In my eyes Weber is the flashier D, a little bit better but Ryan Suter is nearly as good and far under rated.

So my question is who is better, and by how much?

I say Weber, but by a tiny bit but I am not a nashville fan and don't get the chance to watch them play.

PredsV82 06-04-2011 12:11 PM

dont mean to rain on your parade but this has been debated ad nauseum here.

to summarize what I believe is as close to consensus as you can get on a message board, is that Webers combo of size and skill and shot are rarer but Suters all around play is actually more valuable to the team.

but to just use a comparative "who is better" for players with different skillsets is like saying "which is better, air or water"?

Top 6 Spaling 06-04-2011 12:12 PM

First off, they are both incredible, and IMO top 15 D in the league.

Suter by a hair in terms of on ice production, Weber by a wider margin in terms of marketability. Suter would be more valuable to most teams, but Weber puts butts in the seats here. So they are essentially dead even.

Either way, we're keeping both if Mr. Poile decides he wants to.

TMI 06-04-2011 12:18 PM

PredsV hit on the head with the air and water comment.

Weber has size, grit, toughness, one of the hardest shots in the game, leadership ability, and can play some pretty damn good defense.

Suter has mobility and one of the highest hockey IQs in the game. Those two things alone make him an outstanding defenseman. He also has leadership ability, and he has the rare, and highly valuable, ability to make everyone around him better. His on-ice vision is great. He does his job effectively and quietly. Exactly what you want from a shutdown defenseman. If he would try to create more his offensive numbers would go up, too.

At the end of the day they are both elite number 1 defenseman that would make any blueline better automatically. It really just depends on what your team needs. If you need what Weber brings and already have what Suter brings then Weber is the better player. The opposite is true if you have what Weber brings.

cjcanucks 06-04-2011 01:11 PM

Preds have to keep both. They are excellent and will be the foundation for a developing Preds team. Watching them in round two you can see their value. Pekka Rinne is amazing too. The next piece of the puzzle will be to pick up some scoring depth. Preds. will go far once they add to the forward lines.

barrytrotzsneck 06-04-2011 02:00 PM

As others have said, I think Suter is the better defenseman from a technical standpoint, but I think Weber's total-package of size, scoring and physical play make him a rarer\more valuable commodity.

Either way, having both and having to engage in this debate pretty regularly is a good problem to have ;)

Firestorm 06-04-2011 02:07 PM

Shall we make a poll of it? :sarcasm:

barrytrotzsneck 06-04-2011 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnotherHockeyFan (Post 33410889)
Shall we make a poll of it? :sarcasm:

It's been done.

Adz 06-04-2011 02:13 PM

Honestly, I think this is a situation where neither is as good individually as they are in tandem. But if I had to choose which is the better player it would probably be Suter. However, Suter went through that spell where he kept scoring on our own goalie and Weber shot in a puck from the corner of our end, so that is certainly keeping it very close.

Firestorm 06-04-2011 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck (Post 33410909)
It's been done.

Hence the face.

SK74 Snipes 06-04-2011 04:25 PM

Weber is a great leader of our team. Suter has the ability, and does change the game constantly with the little things that you dont see.

Viqsi 06-04-2011 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK74 Snipes (Post 33412682)
Weber is a great leader of our team. Suter has the ability, and does change the game constantly with the little things that you dont see.

...or do see, if you know where to look.

Ryan Suter is love.

OpenWheel 06-05-2011 05:13 AM

Weber is better, or more important. Unless you think the team management is stupid. Because they are going to pay a million or more per year (at least) for Weber than they will for Suter.

Suter is a good all around player, similar but better than Hamhuis. But at times it seems as if Suter can't score goals. Shea can score goals. Preds fans here on hfboards say Suter is better, but unless the management is dumb and will be paying Weber way more for no reason, the fans are wrong. Weber is the best. Suter is very good.

TMI 06-05-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenWheel (Post 33425608)
Weber is better, or more important. Unless you think the team management is stupid. Because they are going to pay a million or more per year (at least) for Weber than they will for Suter.

Suter is a good all around player, similar but better than Hamhuis. But at times it seems as if Suter can't score goals. Shea can score goals. Preds fans here on hfboards say Suter is better, but unless the management is dumb and will be paying Weber way more for no reason, the fans are wrong. Weber is the best. Suter is very good.

I think people consider Suter to be a better defenseman, but not necessarily a better player. I know I wouldn't considering Suter to be the better all around player, but I have a hard time deciding which is the better defenseman. I really do lean towards Suter in that regard.

triggrman 06-06-2011 08:52 AM

They both are elite players at the same position that play totally different styles of game.

Weber is move valuable because he's tougher to replace.

PredsV82 06-06-2011 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenWheel (Post 33425608)
Weber is better, or more important. Unless you think the team management is stupid. Because they are going to pay a million or more per year (at least) for Weber than they will for Suter.

Suter is a good all around player, similar but better than Hamhuis. But at times it seems as if Suter can't score goals. Shea can score goals. Preds fans here on hfboards say Suter is better, but unless the management is dumb and will be paying Weber way more for no reason, the fans are wrong. Weber is the best. Suter is very good.

Um, so how exactly do you know in advance what their future contracts are going tobe??

Personally I expect them to get essentially identical deals.

Top 6 Spaling 06-06-2011 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 33441866)
Um, so how exactly do you know in advance what their future contracts are going tobe??

Personally I expect them to get essentially identical deals.

wait, i thought both of them hate Nashville and are bolting to traditional markets ASAP??!??!/11/1/1/?!??!?:sarcasm:

Viqsi 06-06-2011 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopreds9 (Post 33441943)
wait, i thought both of them hate Nashville and are bolting to traditional markets ASAP??!??!/11/1/1/?!??!?:sarcasm:

No, no, no. They're signing with the Preds because they're both confident that the Preds will relocate to Quebec City within a year or three and they want to be part of that. ;)

glenngineer 06-06-2011 01:04 PM

Suter is more important to Weber than Weber is to Suter. Look at the dozen games Suter was out and how Weber struggled. Suter handles the one on one matchups and the majority of the puck handling. While big checks and big shots are wonderful, a guy that can handle the puck and play great one on one D is more valuable.

OpenWheel 06-07-2011 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 33441866)
Um, so how exactly do you know in advance what their future contracts are going tobe??

I'm naturally brilliant that way I guess.

Quote:

Personally I expect them to get essentially identical deals.
Maybe so. I have just been assuming Weber would need about 7 to sign and I sort of figured Suter would accept less, around 6. And to me, costing more shows who's the most valuable, or better. But maybe they will sign for similar amounts. I guess Erat and Legwand did, with different payment plans.

I think Suter is right there with him. He's elite. My post wasn't too serious more like tongue in cheek. I wish Suter would look at the damn net on the power play though. And I think Shea has been a bit underrated for his dee. He really does play it well.

Orr Nightmare 06-10-2011 08:56 PM

Weber or Suter
 
Ranger fan here...having a discussion about our first round pick last year Dylan McIlrath and my comparing him to Shea Weber.

Some mentioned that Ryan Suter is better than Shea Weber, I disagree, I think Weber top 3 dmen in the league and that is not a knock on Suter, I just feel Weber is better.

But who better to ask than the people that get the pleasure of watching both of them every night.

Gnashville 06-10-2011 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare (Post 33559965)
Ranger fan here...having a discussion about our first round pick last year Dylan McIlrath and my comparing him to Shea Weber.

Some mentioned that Ryan Suter is better than Shea Weber, I disagree, I think Weber top 3 dmen in the league and that is not a knock on Suter, I just feel Weber is better.

But who better to ask than the people that get the pleasure of watching both of them every night.

Without Suter, Weber is a top 10 D-man; With Suter, Weber is a Norris Candidate. Suter is a Top 5 Dman no matter where he plays. Both are good but together they are dynamite. Suter elevates the players around him. Look a Rafalski's performance in the Olympics. Selflessness and sacrifice for the team is Suter's game.

BourqueBourqueBork 06-10-2011 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare (Post 33559965)
Ranger fan here...having a discussion about our first round pick last year Dylan McIlrath and my comparing him to Shea Weber.

Some mentioned that Ryan Suter is better than Shea Weber, I disagree, I think Weber top 3 dmen in the league and that is not a knock on Suter, I just feel Weber is better.

But who better to ask than the people that get the pleasure of watching both of them every night.

It depends on what you're talking about.

Weber definitely has the better shot on the offensive end...it's a big, heavy shot, and pretty accurate. Suter has a decent shot, but is far more effective with a screen.

However, Suter is the superior set up man. He makes crisp passes, both in the offensive zone and in the breakout. I would also take this as far as Suter is better with the puck in the neutral and defensive zones.

On the defensive side (their actual position, duh), both are shutdown guys, but in very different ways. Weber will separate your body from the puck. Suter will separate the puck from your body. If you're looking for a D-man to rough up a forward, Weber is your man. He's big, but not awkward as a Zdeno Chara. He will slam you into the glass. He will plant you on the ice. He will fight you if you get too close to Pekka Rinne.

Suter, on the other hand, is a little more smart and subtle with his defense. He isn't a pansy...he'll slam your @ss into the glass, but not with quite the same ferocity of Weber. What Suter excels at is playing the puck. If you don't protect it, he will poke it, he will prod it, he will make sure you don't have a clear shot.

In essence, Shea Weber is going to physically frustrate you, whereas Ryan Suter will mentally frustrate you.



I do believe, however, that they feed off of each other's skills. Both of them are decently well rounded, and have some of the capabilities of the other (i.e. few weak aspects of the game)...but their strong suits complement each other incredibly well. They really are a Yin and Yang D-pairing and both benefit from the other's presence.

I don't mean to sound cocky, but both of those guys are smart enough to know that they're in a good situation. They need each other as much or more than they need Nashville. I don't think there are a whole lot of D pairings in the league with such an equal complement as those two have.

Top 6 Spaling 06-11-2011 10:34 AM

Suter is the brains, Weber is the brawn. They are both equally important to this organization, and both incredible players.

/thread

Firestorm 06-11-2011 09:07 PM

Ouch, no one has voted for Weber yet! :sarcasm:


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