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-   -   Elitserien and Sm-liiga (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=934717)

JYP88* 06-26-2011 04:38 AM

Elitserien and Sm-liiga
 
What are the differences between those leagues? I have watched TWO Elitserien and about 100 Sm-liiga games.. Elitserien players are better with the puck and give better passes,, like to move with the puck and hold it for a long time.

In Sm-liiga might be little bit physical. There is not much time with the puck and you can see a lot wrestle against boards. Players aren't so skillfull and they dont want to take responsibility with the puck.

Is there any statistics about goal/game or something like this between leagues?

And would you like to see games Elitserien vs Sm-liiga?

Nordic* 06-26-2011 07:09 AM

SEL is slower and more tactical, SM-liga is faster and more run & gun.

Since we have like 5 times as many players in the NHL/AHL than Finland, I believe these two leagues are pretty much equally good/bad these days.

cheerupmurray 06-26-2011 10:29 AM

The salaries are higher in Sweden which means that SEL teams can attract a bit higher quality players. My guess is that Elitserien still is a bit better but the gap might be shrinking. Elitserien used to poach from SM-liiga, but nowadays the topnotch finns that plays in Europe goes to KHL in stead.

Lugaid 06-26-2011 04:54 PM

Well there are some games occasionally between Finnish/Swedish teams, Nordic Trophy for example, which is usually quite interesting to follow. I think it's safe to say that the finnish league is a little bit quicker and more aggressive, while the SEL is perhaps more tactically developed and "slow and steady". However, finnish teams usually win over swedish teams in those tournaments, not sure why, people usually say that swedish teams don't care enough about those tournaments, but I don't think that's true. The top finnish teams are as good (if not better) than the swedish teams, but if you look at the entire leagues, I think SEL has to have the edge, which is pretty understandable given the cirumstances of salary etc.

Ciccarelli 06-27-2011 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugaid (Post 34138259)
...but if you look at the entire leagues, I think SEL has to have the edge, which is pretty understandable given the cirumstances of salary etc.

Aaaand of course the fact that the SM-Liiga has 14 teams while there are only 12 teams in the Elitserien. Drop two of the bottom teams from SM-Liiga (SaiPa & Pelicans/TPS) and the cap would be much smaller between the top teams and bottom teams.

The player movement between SM-Liiga and Elitserien seems to have changed direction. Too lazy to check it but I think in the couple of past years ther have been more guys moving to SM-liiga from Elitserien than the other way..?

This pre-season transactions between the two leagues (from the top of my head)

SM-Liiga -> Elitserien

Ville Viitaluoma

...

Elitserien -> SM-Liiga

Eero Somervuori
Mikko Jokela
Kim Hirsovits
Ville Koistinen
Vesa Toskala
John Klingberg
William Wallen
Riku Hahl
Timo Seppänen
Arto Laatikainen
Riku Helenius
Oscar Eklund
Ville Mäntymaa
Pekka Saarenheimo
Kris Beech
Ryan Lasch
Viktor Ekbom
Markus Seikola


Well well well, wouldn't you take a look at that. I might have forgotten a couple of names but not more than that..

thomast 06-27-2011 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugaid (Post 34138259)
Well there are some games occasionally between Finnish/Swedish teams, Nordic Trophy for example, which is usually quite interesting to follow. I think it's safe to say that the finnish league is a little bit quicker and more aggressive, while the SEL is perhaps more tactically developed and "slow and steady". However, finnish teams usually win over swedish teams in those tournaments, not sure why, people usually say that swedish teams don't care enough about those tournaments, but I don't think that's true. The top finnish teams are as good (if not better) than the swedish teams, but if you look at the entire leagues, I think SEL has to have the edge, which is pretty understandable given the cirumstances of salary etc.

This.

cheerupmurray 06-27-2011 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli (Post 34160885)
Elitserien -> SM-Liiga

Eero Somervuori
Mikko Jokela
Kim Hirsovits
Ville Koistinen
Vesa Toskala
John Klingberg
William Wallen
Riku Hahl
Timo Seppänen
Arto Laatikainen
Riku Helenius
Oscar Eklund
Ville Mäntymaa
Pekka Saarenheimo
Kris Beech
Ryan Lasch
Viktor Ekbom
Markus Seikola


Well well well, wouldn't you take a look at that. I might have forgotten a couple of names but not more than that..

Interesting stuff, especially all those young swedes moving over, that's unusual. I clearly thik there was more SEL-clubs going on a spending spree a couple of years ago. The economic crisis has lead to that the teams are keeping a tighter budget and perhaps is a bit more eager to produce their own players through the junior club than paying loads for expensive forreign players. It has both pros and cons, those forreigners was often very good players that added quality to the league, but at the same time Sweden develops more good young players nowadays.


One big difference between SM-liiga and Elitserien is that SEL have a much better farm league, Allsvenskan is so much better than Mestis and theres tons of players going from SEL-2 to SEL each year and do well. So Elitserien has a better way to fill the gaps when players move on to KHL and NA than FEL.

On the whole I think FEL is probably pretty close to SEL in quality especially considering the bigger budgets of the SEL-teams.

joe89 06-27-2011 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli (Post 34160885)
Aaaand of course the fact that the SM-Liiga has 14 teams while there are only 12 teams in the Elitserien. Drop two of the bottom teams from SM-Liiga (SaiPa & Pelicans/TPS) and the cap would be much smaller between the top teams and bottom teams.

The player movement between SM-Liiga and Elitserien seems to have changed direction. Too lazy to check it but I think in the couple of past years ther have been more guys moving to SM-liiga from Elitserien than the other way..?

This pre-season transactions between the two leagues (from the top of my head)

SM-Liiga -> Elitserien

Ville Viitaluoma

...

Elitserien -> SM-Liiga

Eero Somervuori
Mikko Jokela
Kim Hirsovits
Ville Koistinen
Vesa Toskala
John Klingberg
William Wallen
Riku Hahl
Timo Seppänen
Arto Laatikainen
Riku Helenius
Oscar Eklund
Ville Mäntymaa
Pekka Saarenheimo
Kris Beech
Ryan Lasch
Viktor Ekbom
Markus Seikola


Well well well, wouldn't you take a look at that. I might have forgotten a couple of names but not more than that..

The movement from Elitserien > SM-Liiga will only continue, especially with the Finnish players. SEL is turning into a farm-league to the NHL(you can have opinions about that, but that's where we're heading). With good junior programs the young players are getting ready for men's hockey at an early age, ready to push the older players out - especially the fill-in players that cost more than they bring to the table. What the juniors lack in routine against players such as those listed above, they make up for with hard work and a really low salary. This also means that a few Swedish prospects will look elsewhere to get ice time, and SM-Liiga is the logical choice to get that for Swedes. SEL clubs will stop overpaying for Finnish/Czech/Slovakian players like they have over the years and just bring in their own juniors to fill out their squads in the next couple of years. Many clubs have already started doing it.

About the leagues, SEL remains the better league to develop in because of the tactical and skill aspects. The teams are pretty evenly matched however.

The Saw Is the Law 06-28-2011 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugaid (Post 34138259)
Well there are some games occasionally between Finnish/Swedish teams, Nordic Trophy for example, which is usually quite interesting to follow. I think it's safe to say that the finnish league is a little bit quicker and more aggressive, while the SEL is perhaps more tactically developed and "slow and steady". However, finnish teams usually win over swedish teams in those tournaments, not sure why, people usually say that swedish teams don't care enough about those tournaments, but I don't think that's true.

I believe thats because Finnish teams can easily play their own style against Swedes. Hard forecheck, keep pressure on D-men, hits. But Swedish teams can't play their 'own' game.

SM-liiga was in decline early 2000's. Some pp still say league was better in 90's but I don't believe it. If I look old tapes the game looks horrible. 90's SM-liiga > 90's Elitserien, 00's Elitserien > 00's SM-liiga, but definitely 10's SM-liiga > 90's SM-liiga

Elitserien may be still better but the gap is not as big as before.

johnny_rudeboy 06-28-2011 11:48 AM

I will go OT here seeing as I dont follow the Finnish league at all but can only agree on that they do look good enough for SEL teams when they play the Nordic Trophy tournament.

Just wanted to ask how Arto Laatikainen are doing these days? He was hot and cold for FBK but he was also injured a lot of the times but still a good player.

Ciccarelli 06-28-2011 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy (Post 34233587)
I will go OT here seeing as I dont follow the Finnish league at all but can only agree on that they do look good enough for SEL teams when they play the Nordic Trophy tournament.

Just wanted to ask how Arto Laatikainen are doing these days? He was hot and cold for FBK but he was also injured a lot of the times but still a good player.

Laatikainen played for SSK last season...Scored 20 something points I think, was their best offensive D-man.

All of the top European leagues look pretty even if you look at the euro club tournaments...And the caps between these leagues (FEL, SEL, NLA, DEL, Cze Extraliga) are probably narrower than most people would think...

Latex* 06-28-2011 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saw Is the Law (Post 34222031)
I believe thats because Finnish teams can easily play their own style against Swedes. Hard forecheck, keep pressure on D-men, hits. But Swedish teams can't play their 'own' game.

SM-liiga was in decline early 2000's. Some pp still say league was better in 90's but I don't believe it. If I look old tapes the game looks horrible. 90's SM-liiga > 90's Elitserien, 00's Elitserien > 00's SM-liiga, but definitely 10's SM-liiga > 90's SM-liiga

Elitserien may be still better but the gap is not as big as before.

Sure, the quality of play in SM-Liiga is better than in the 90's, but so it is everywhere else also. When people talk about SM-Liiga being a weaker league than it was before is due to the fact that while SM-Liiga is getting better, the top leagues are also doing so.. only faster.

IMO the thing i described is not the situation anymore, but it's where the talk of SM-Liiga being in decline comes from.

And on topic;
Elitserien>>>>>>>>> SM-Liiga (5 years ago)
Elitserien>>>SM-Liiga (at the moment)

Our league was in terrible shape a few years back, but i think it's recovering.

hz 06-28-2011 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli (Post 34160885)
Aaaand of course the fact that the SM-Liiga has 14 teams while there are only 12 teams in the Elitserien. Drop two of the bottom teams from SM-Liiga (SaiPa & Pelicans/TPS) and the cap would be much smaller between the top teams and bottom teams.

The player movement between SM-Liiga and Elitserien seems to have changed direction. Too lazy to check it but I think in the couple of past years ther have been more guys moving to SM-liiga from Elitserien than the other way..?

This pre-season transactions between the two leagues (from the top of my head)

SM-Liiga -> Elitserien

Ville Viitaluoma

...

Elitserien -> SM-Liiga

Eero Somervuori
Mikko Jokela
Kim Hirsovits
Ville Koistinen
Vesa Toskala
John Klingberg
William Wallen
Riku Hahl
Timo Seppänen
Arto Laatikainen
Riku Helenius
Oscar Eklund
Ville Mäntymaa
Pekka Saarenheimo
Kris Beech
Ryan Lasch
Viktor Ekbom
Markus Seikola

But most players in that list went to FEL because they dit not make their teams in SEL. Among the players from my team (Klingberg, Wallén, Hahl and Mäntymaa. Frölunda, only Riku Hahl played constantly. And he did not play in any of the top lines.

And that is not the case when it is the other way around, when a swedish club buy a FEL player, they usually buy a topplayer.

Lui One Hall 06-28-2011 07:04 PM

Elitserien teams are far richer than Finnish SM-liiga teams. In 2009-2010 season, eleven out of twelve Elitserien clubs had a bigger player budget than the richest SM-liiga club Kärpät and I think there was also a couple of Allsvenskan teams(Leksand?, Malmö?) who had larger payroll than Kärpät.

Economically Elitserien is a step or two ahead of SM-liiga, they have a much more lucrative TV contract and stronger attendance figures.

Ciccarelli 06-29-2011 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hz (Post 34256959)
But most players in that list went to FEL because they dit not make their teams in SEL. Among the players from my team (Klingberg, Wallén, Hahl and Mäntymaa. Frölunda, only Riku Hahl played constantly. And he did not play in any of the top lines.

And that is not the case when it is the other way around, when a swedish club buy a FEL player, they usually buy a topplayer.

That was the case actually a couple of years ago. Now of course, as we can clearly see, your statement is false. Actually about half of those guys were either top-6 forwards or top-4 d-men in their SEL teams. Pretty much all the rest of the guys are atleast good prospects. William Wallen scored 11 goals in his 12 games with his Allsvenskan team, Oscar Eklund was on team Sweden's WC camp and scored 4 points in 6 games, John Klingberg signed an NHL deal, only plays his first year in Jokerit...Alot of good stuff IMO.

svartgul 06-29-2011 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli (Post 34278115)
That was the case actually a couple of years ago. Now of course, as we can clearly see, your statement is false. Actually about half of those guys were either top-6 forwards or top-4 d-men in their SEL teams. Pretty much all the rest of the guys are atleast good prospects. William Wallen scored 11 goals in his 12 games with his Allsvenskan team, Oscar Eklund was on team Sweden's WC camp and scored 4 points in 6 games, John Klingberg signed an NHL deal, only plays his first year in Jokerit...Alot of good stuff IMO.

_were_ is the keyword here. Somervuori is the probably the only guy on the list that would get a SEL contract.

Ciccarelli 06-29-2011 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svartgul (Post 34278631)
_were_ is the keyword here. Somervuori is the probably the only guy on the list that would get a SEL contract.

Lulz.

I guess SEL must be a helluva lot better than it was last season then. Lots of top scoring forwards and d-men for their teams in that list. But I'm not even gonna start arguing this subject again, never ends well becose most of the swedes on here seem to be "a bit" too proud of their league, lol.

hz 06-29-2011 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli (Post 34278115)
That was the case actually a couple of years ago. Now of course, as we can clearly see, your statement is false. Actually about half of those guys were either top-6 forwards or top-4 d-men in their SEL teams. Pretty much all the rest of the guys are atleast good prospects. William Wallen scored 11 goals in his 12 games with his Allsvenskan team, Oscar Eklund was on team Sweden's WC camp and scored 4 points in 6 games, John Klingberg signed an NHL deal, only plays his first year in Jokerit...Alot of good stuff IMO.


William Wallén actually made 20 points in 38 matches, but that was with Frölundas farm team in allsvenskan.
Ok i admit that maybe 6,7 players at the list were good enough for SEL. But none of those players were top players. Expect (Somervuori, Hirsovits and Beech. And maybe Lasch)

If you look at the players that went to my team, Frölunda, from FEL in the last couple of years. Mäntymaa & Mäenpää. They were topplayers in Finland.

Eklund were only only the first camps when elitserien wasent finished. How many players from SEL played for Finland in WC? And how many players from FEL played for Sweden?? That is also evident, that FEL dosent get topplayers from Sweden.

Latex* 06-29-2011 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hz (Post 34281127)
William Wallén actually made 20 points in 38 matches, but that was with Frölundas farm team in allsvenskan.
Ok i admit that maybe 6,7 players at the list were good enough for SEL. But none of those players were top players. Expect (Somervuori, Hirsovits and Beech. And maybe Lasch)

If you look at the players that went to my team, Frölunda, from FEL in the last couple of years. Mäntymaa & Mäenpää. They were topplayers in Finland.

Eklund were only only the first camps when elitserien wasent finished. How many players from SEL played for Finland in WC? And how many players from FEL played for Sweden?? That is also evident, that FEL dosent get topplayers from Sweden.

Note that the Elitserien players (pyörälä, Jaakola) in our WC team were amongst the worst, whereas the average FEL players (lajunen, välivaara, Väänänen) were amongst the best. Let alone Mikael Granlund...

+ Lassila

Mäenpää & Mäntymaa top players? Lulz That's seriously debatable.


Edit; oh and Elitserien >> SM-Liiga, but many of you are underrating SM-Liiga.

Lui One Hall 06-29-2011 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatexiKledjut (Post 34281517)
Mäenpää & Mäntymaa top players? Lulz That's seriously debatable.

No... it's not. Mäenpää and Mäntymaa both were top dmen in SM-liiga before leaving to Sweden.

Lui One Hall 06-29-2011 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatexiKledjut (Post 34281517)
Note that the Elitserien players (pyörälä, Jaakola) in our WC team were amongst the worst, whereas the average FEL players (lajunen, välivaara, Väänänen) were amongst the best. Let alone Mikael Granlund...

Yeah, and Lepistö and Salmela were two of the worst dmen on the Finnish team, but I still wouldn't say NHL is a worse hockey league than SM-liiga.

... and Pyörälä & Jaakola both had a very solid tournament, especially Pyörälä.

Latex* 06-29-2011 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timanGi (Post 34286553)
No... it's not. Mäenpää and Mäntymaa both were top dmen in SM-liiga before leaving to Sweden.

Top D-Men in what sense? top pairing d-men in their teams? Sure. Top d-men in the league? No chance in hell.


Quote:

but I still wouldn't say NHL is a worse hockey league than SM-liiga.
What an idiot.. Can't you read? Haven't i said number of times in this thread that Elitserien is by a mile the better league of the two?

Quote:

... and Pyörälä & Jaakola both had a very solid tournament, especially Pyörälä.
Pyörälä should have been in the 4th line at best. Can't do anything well, but can do everything in average level.
Jaakola having a "very solid tournament"? You've got to be kidding me.

luggstah 07-06-2011 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciccarelli (Post 34160885)
Aaaand of course the fact that the SM-Liiga has 14 teams while there are only 12 teams in the Elitserien. Drop two of the bottom teams from SM-Liiga (SaiPa & Pelicans/TPS) and the cap would be much smaller between the top teams and bottom teams.

The player movement between SM-Liiga and Elitserien seems to have changed direction. Too lazy to check it but I think in the couple of past years ther have been more guys moving to SM-liiga from Elitserien than the other way..?

This pre-season transactions between the two leagues (from the top of my head)

SM-Liiga -> Elitserien

Ville Viitaluoma

...

Elitserien -> SM-Liiga

Eero Somervuori
Mikko Jokela
Kim Hirsovits
Ville Koistinen
Vesa Toskala
John Klingberg
William Wallen
Riku Hahl
Timo Seppänen
Arto Laatikainen
Riku Helenius
Oscar Eklund
Ville Mäntymaa
Pekka Saarenheimo
Kris Beech
Ryan Lasch
Viktor Ekbom
Markus Seikola


Well well well, wouldn't you take a look at that. I might have forgotten a couple of names but not more than that..

But we still have more fins in general from sm-liiga or ppl coming back from khl / ahl often goes to sweden instead because elitserien is ready to pay more. im not saying elitserien is a better league, in my opinion they're pretty much the same.

Hockeyfrilla 10-29-2012 08:51 AM

Another year of bad showing by the finnish teams in ET. I know this is only a preseason tourney, but imo they should do better. 4 SEL teams are in playoffs.


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