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-   -   Habs Board Day 1 WINNERS/losers (excluding habs moves) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=940999)

Miller Time 07-01-2011 11:53 PM

Habs Board Day 1 WINNERS/losers (excluding habs moves)
 
I'm very curious to see what other habs fans think about what went down today FOR OTHER TEAMS!

Once we remove the emotions/bias of judging the habs, I'm curious to see how different/similar other habs fans reacted to the day's moves.

please keep the condescension and 100% certainty out of the thread...

either pick some winners/losers, or generally comment on who you think made the right/wrong moves today.

Just opinions, knowing that hindsight will show that some of these GM's were "right" and some were dead "wrong" and the only thing that is certain is that none of us can predict the future.


my immediate reactions:

WINNERS

Panthers
(still under the cap threshold, "team" -a term i use loosely, is much better than it was to end the season, still have money they HAVE to spend, and despite overpaying, have cap room -even if not budget room-, to add high priced/talented players at any time and/or afford to pay their upcoming young stars, should they work out.)

Blackhawks
(spent under 5M$ on 4 veteran role players each of which should be able to play their role effectively while doing so at good-great value. )

Flyers
(add Jagr/Talbot/Lilja while moving Versteeg for even more picks, Jagr is boom/bust, but with this deep group of forwards I think boom is more likely, talbot brings grit/experience to the fwd group, liljia is a ?, but as a 7/press box veteran you can do worse.

LOSERS

Sabres
(remembering that I'm just talking about July 1st moves, Leino could prove to be an long (6 years!) expensive (4.5M$) mistake a few years down the road if the Sabres are a cap spending team and he struggles to match/improve on the 50pts he's only put up once in his career at 27... I'd have paid him more over fewer years even to the point of going 1M$ higher in order to keep it at 3 years or less, assuming I was that sold on him... much better to deal with/buy out 1-2 years @ 5,5M$ than to deal with 4-5 years @ 4.5M$ if things don't work out. Same issue with McCormick, too much term).

Colorado
( hedja was discarded by defensive starved Colombus and yet he gets 4 yrs/3.25M$?, and that trade... how do you give up a likely lottery pick AND a 2nd rounder for a goalie who hasn't proven anything?... could be remembered as a terrible day for the avs).

Habsbullet 07-01-2011 11:59 PM

Worst transaction of the day goes to the Varlamov trade, not sure about acquisitions.

ChoseLa 07-02-2011 12:01 AM

Florida might be a winner, they seriously put a hockey club together considering all the upcoming player they have, i a year or two they'llbe though to play against.

Dwight 07-02-2011 12:02 AM

Tough to ignore what the Sabres have done so far. Not looking forward to playing them.

Chicago, I think, did a very nice job in bringing in some depth players.

Toronto gets a DNS for Did Not Start.

We Want The 25 07-02-2011 12:10 AM

toronto biggest loseres i expected them to be very active and the only name they been mentioned on is richards who i dont think they have a chance to get and they already missed out on a lot of players leafs fans wont be happy once richards signs in ny

Roulin 07-02-2011 12:10 AM

Maloney has to be very smart for Phoenix to have another good year, and he's doing well so far. Torres and Gordon are great bargains.

Colorado, on the other hand... I'm not a fan of the Hejda (too long) and O'Byrne (too much) contracts, but the Varlamov trade sealed the deal. Biggest loser.

Hawkguy 07-02-2011 12:37 AM

Winners;
Florida
- I believe they have, at the very least, made themselves into a playoff contender. While they don't have any elite talent, they are very deep.
Buffalo - Leino adds to Ehrhoff and Regher. Awesome work for Buffalo so far this off season.
Chicago - Added some very nice roleplayers (Carcillo, Mayers, O'Donnell) and added a very underated forward who should mesh will with a guy like Patrick Sharp (Brunette).

Losers;
Philadelphia
- I wanted Jagr here because of the rumours he'd be cheap and the 40-50 points I thought he'd score. Sure the Flyers got him but they also gave up a 46-point scorer as well who is an RFA. Talbot is meh.
Toronto - Are they alive?

Hawkguy 07-02-2011 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roulin (Post 34512741)
Maloney has to be very smart for Phoenix to have another good year, and he's doing well so far. Torres and Gordon are great bargains.

Colorado, on the other hand... I'm not a fan of the Hejda (too long) and O'Byrne (too much) contracts, but the Varlamov trade sealed the deal. Biggest loser.

The Colorado fans loved O'Byrne. 20:24 TOI/game. He is a legit top-4 for them and played well.

MathMan 07-02-2011 12:43 AM

Winners:
Washington - Snagging a lottery pick for Varlamov already was made of win. Add in made strong signings such as Hamrlik and Halpern, and they are the big winners of UFA day.

Losers:
Florida - it's hard to get value on UFA day but that's no reason to overpay UFAs on top of that. Yeah, they'll be better than they were. They might be the 10th best team in the East now. Much good will it do to them. Tallon is repeating what got him fired in Chicago.

Colorado - Handed Washington a lottery pick for Varlamov and signed Giguère. Meanwhile, Vokoun was right there on the market.

Miller Time 07-02-2011 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natey2k4 (Post 34513813)
Losers;
Philadelphia
- I wanted Jagr here because of the rumours he'd be cheap and the 40-50 points I thought he'd score. Sure the Flyers got him but they also gave up a 46-point scorer as well who is an RFA. Talbot is meh.

but they didn't just give up versteeg, they got a 2nd/3rd for him... essentially making his "cost" to them the difference btw a late 2011 first and a (likely) earlier 2nd rd pick in 2012... not bad for a season of contribution.

with the rest of their fwd group, i think Jarg is a much better fit, short-term, to give them what their missing.

Roulin 07-02-2011 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natey2k4 (Post 34513885)
The Colorado fans loved O'Byrne. 20:24 TOI/game. He is a legit top-4 for them and played well.

Glad they loved his contribution to their 14th place finish! Honestly, top 4 ice time on that team doesn't impress me. O'Byrne has done well to make himself into a 6D on a decent team - he should be paid as such.

Hawkguy 07-02-2011 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller Time (Post 34514173)
but they didn't just give up versteeg, they got a 2nd/3rd for him... essentially making his "cost" to them the difference btw a late 2011 first and a (likely) earlier 2nd rd pick in 2012... not bad for a season of contribution.

with the rest of their fwd group, i think Jarg is a much better fit, short-term, to give them what their missing.

Yeah, all their forwards will learn to have the same effort. :P

Hackett 07-02-2011 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 34514013)
Winners:
Washington - Snagging a lottery pick for Varlamov already was made of win. Add in made strong signings such as Hamrlik and Halpern, and they are the big winners of UFA day.

Losers:
Florida - it's hard to get value on UFA day but that's no reason to overpay UFAs on top of that. Yeah, they'll be better than they were. They might be the 10th best team in the East now. Much good will it do to them. Tallon is repeating what got him fired in Chicago.

Colorado - Handed Washington a lottery pick for Varlamov and signed Giguère. Meanwhile, Vokoun was right there on the market.

I'm surprised this team hasnt been mentioned more. When you take into account the brouwer trade and grabbing hamrlik, ward while maintaining laich... an already big team just got bigger and a little meaner. While halpern is a smaller guy, they certainly got an elite faceoff man, who who can fit well in a checking role.

Washington just became a bit tougher to play against.

Miller Time 07-02-2011 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 34514013)
Winners:
Washington - Snagging a lottery pick for Varlamov already was made of win. Add in made strong signings such as Hamrlik and Halpern, and they are the big winners of UFA day.

Losers:
Florida - it's hard to get value on UFA day but that's no reason to overpay UFAs on top of that. Yeah, they'll be better than they were. They might be the 10th best team in the East now. Much good will it do to them. Tallon is repeating what got him fired in Chicago.


i should have included washington as well...

complete steal in the trade, and Hamrlik/Ward, even if at a premium price, fits their needs quite well. Only issue is that they are just about out of wiggle room and still have two important RFA's to sign in Brouwer/Alzner... so they'll be moving someone out.

halpern is a great depth player at that price as well.


With Florida, as much as I dislike most of the moves Tallon's made, the fact that he had so much roster space to fill and so much money he needed to spend, even with so many questionable moves he's still 17M$ under the cap...

his roster now has 6 quality top-9 players up front, and 3-4 solid top-5 dmen, the bulk of which he assembled today, and remarkably, at least on paper, they have pretty good balance...

Booth*- Fleishman- Bergenheim
Weiss*- Kopecky- Goc
Upshall- Versteeg- Repik*

Campbell- Jovo
Kulikov- Weaver/Ellerby

add a top-3 fwd and a top-pairing dman to that group (which they could easily afford and still have 4-5M in cap space), and that's a deep/dangerous team

the "skeleton" of a very good team just missing 2-3 star players to propel it into upper-tier contention (of course obtaining those types of player is incredibly tough, but that's another issue unrelated to today's moves)

Miller Time 07-02-2011 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natey2k4 (Post 34514405)
Yeah, all their forwards will learn to have the same effort. :P

we can only hope and pray!

Roulin 07-02-2011 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MathMan (Post 34514013)
Washington - Snagging a lottery pick for Varlamov already was made of win. Add in made strong signings such as Hamrlik and Halpern, and they are the big winners of UFA day.

What do you think of the Ward signing?

Hawkguy 07-02-2011 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller Time (Post 34514665)
i should have included washington as well...

complete steal in the trade, and Hamrlik/Ward, even if at a premium price, fits their needs quite well. Only issue is that they are just about out of wiggle room and still have two important RFA's to sign in Brouwer/Alzner... so they'll be moving someone out.

halpern is a great depth player at that price as well.


With Florida, as much as I dislike most of the moves Tallon's made, the fact that he had so much roster space to fill and so much money he needed to spend, even with so many questionable moves he's still 17M$ under the cap...

his roster now has 6 quality top-9 players up front, and 3-4 solid top-5 dmen, the bulk of which he assembled today, and remarkably, at least on paper, they have pretty good balance...

Booth*- Fleishman- Bergenheim
Weiss*- Kopecky- Goc
Upshall- Versteeg- Repik*

Campbell- Jovo
Kulikov- Weaver/Ellerby

add a top-3 fwd and a top-pairing dman to that group (which they could easily afford and still have 4-5M in cap space), and that's a deep/dangerous team

the "skeleton" of a very good team just missing 2-3 star players to propel it into upper-tier contention (of course obtaining those types of player is incredibly tough, but that's another issue unrelated to today's moves)

You're missing Santorelli who will likely be the 2nd line centre (6', 200 LBS, 21 goals and 41 points last year). Goc will also probably centre the 3rd line.

I think you're looking at a line-up like;

Booth - Weiss - Versteeg
Flash - Santorelli - Upshall/Dadonov
Kopecky - Goc - Bergenheim/Upshall
Bergenheim/Dadonov - Matthias - Skille/Repik

MathMan 07-02-2011 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roulin (Post 34514991)
What do you think of the Ward signing?

Everyone seems to think he got the money for the postseason heroics. I think he got it because he played a lot of extremely tough minutes for Nashville (first-line competition) and did so effectively. And even got pretty good production while doing it (25ish even-strength points).

A very strong player for a dedicated checking line, a good defensive conscience for a power-on-power top-6 line, or a very, very good third-liner. A good signing, in short; not a guy who is surfing solely on a playoff shopping spree.

Markowicz 07-02-2011 02:53 AM

So far i like what Buffalo has done. A good balance of speed, skill and size has been added to their lineup. Philly made some nice acquisitions but i see the mix of players possibly not gelling. Too many newbies, they might take a year or two to come to fruition. Washington is i think the new Philly, in the sense that everything looks great but then you have Neuvirth and Holtby, and you're hoping it works out. Honestly i think Holtby is their goalie of the future, he has Price-like poise. It just might take a while before they realize it. Florida's moves are in the realm of WTF. A bunch of decent talent all thrown together in a giant melange. Good luck with that. I hope they do well, but i doubt it.

All in all, it was actually a very interesting July 1st--lots of unpredictable stuff went down. Still can't believe Washington got away with that trade, that was really the news of the day.

Corncob 07-02-2011 04:05 AM

Not getting the love for Florida.

When you're on the cap floor and about all of your players range from overpaid to ridiculously overpaid, that doesn't indicate a wealth of talent or an impending play off charge.

Bar the Leino signing, I like what Buffalo have done a lot. And while I think they paid Leino too much and for too long, he does have upside.

Philly is a strange one. Holmgren is like a lunatic locked in a room hurling random paint at a canvas. He's probably just going to make a mess, but there's the slim chance that somewhere down the line everyone decides it's art.

Hawkguy 07-02-2011 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habtacular (Post 34517649)
Not getting the love for Florida.

When you're on the cap floor and about all of your players range from overpaid to ridiculously overpaid, that doesn't indicate a wealth of talent or an impending play off charge.

Bar the Leino signing, I like what Buffalo have done a lot. And while I think they paid Leino too much and for too long, he does have upside.

Philly is a strange one. Holmgren is like a lunatic locked in a room hurling random paint at a canvas. He's probably just going to make a mess, but there's the slim chance that somewhere down the line everyone decides it's art.

If they sign Gagné or Connolly, which frankly, is quite possible - they are going to have a ridiculous deep team. They don't have any elite talent, but they have a couple above average 2nd lines and some great 3rd liners.

Look at the PPG ratios;

Weiss - 0.65 or 53 points (down year as well with Booth just starting to get his legs back)
Booth - 0.50 or 41 points/season (expect that to rise)
Santorelli - 0.50 or 41 points/season (young kid, should improve)
Flash - 0.69 or 57 points/season
Kopecky - 0.52 or 43 points/season
Upshall - 0.42 or 34 points/season
Goc - 0.47 or 39 points/season (awesome 3rd line centre)
Versteeg - 0.58 or 47 points/season
Dadonov - 0.47 or 39 points/season (rookie, should improve)
Bergenheim - 0.37 or 30 points/season

Add in Campbell and Jovocop which frankly is an upgrade over last season - and they have got better.

How far is that off of us last year, seriously? Like I said, no elite talent but very deep.

jrk 07-02-2011 06:21 AM

Winner: My winner is the habs not because they are the one that improved the most. I don't know enough about hockey to say that. They are my winner because they did exactly what I wanted them to do. They signed Erik Cole et got a backup goalie. I believe the habs can go far if healty.

Loser: Again, for me it is hard to declare a loser, but if I have to choose one I would say the Flyers. The flyers only for this year because they will do worse this year then last year. Jagr won't make any difference. 2012-2013 will be the year for the Flyers if Bryzgalov is the solution.

prevail 07-02-2011 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natey2k4 (Post 34518053)
If they sign Gagné or Connolly, which frankly, is quite possible - they are going to have a ridiculous deep team. They don't have any elite talent, but they have a couple above average 2nd lines and some great 3rd liners.

Look at the PPG ratios;

Weiss - 0.65 or 53 points (down year as well with Booth just starting to get his legs back)
Booth - 0.50 or 41 points/season (expect that to rise)
Santorelli - 0.50 or 41 points/season (young kid, should improve)
Flash - 0.69 or 57 points/season
Kopecky - 0.52 or 43 points/season
Upshall - 0.42 or 34 points/season
Goc - 0.47 or 39 points/season (awesome 3rd line centre)
Versteeg - 0.58 or 47 points/season
Dadonov - 0.47 or 39 points/season (rookie, should improve)
Bergenheim - 0.37 or 30 points/season

Add in Campbell and Jovocop which frankly is an upgrade over last season - and they have got better.

How far is that off of us last year, seriously? Like I said, no elite talent but very deep.

PPG is not really a good point to make, 6/10 of the players you mentioned played on separate teams and most likely won't reach those ratios if they all played on one team.

The Panthers have improved though, I'll give them that

Whitesnake 07-02-2011 06:54 AM

You are a winner when you improve. Florida improved. They are a winner....now. Then, we'll see how it translate on the ice and HOW MUCH it will make them better, like playoff spot contender. Then, we'll address how much that UFA period was great for them. Until then, they are amongst winners.

CHestah in Maine 07-02-2011 07:07 AM

Put me on the side that thinks Florida screwed up. They didn't sign a single player yesterday that had Montreal signed the same player I would have been excited about. Worse, they overpaid for a lot of those guys. Every forward they signed yesterday is more or less a "tweener" or has some sort of other issue.


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