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JLP 07-03-2011 06:51 AM

Jacques Martin: 2011-2012 Season
 
Hi. I know JM discussions tend to polarize our fan base but I'm curious. Do you think Martin will still be our coach a year from now?

Of course a coach's job tends to depend on club performance, doubt the Habs will fail to make the playoffs but would be surprised if they finish higher than 6th, maybe that's enough, maybe not.

Yes, JM's system got us deep in 2010 and within an OT goal of beating the broons this year. I think there is concern regarding how he handles younger players -- if S. Kostitsyn, Latendresse and Pouliot have good years, I fear there will be more such criticism of Martin.

So what do you think? The average tenure of an NHL coach is 2.3 seasons. This will be Martins' third season at the helm of the Habs. Will he make it through?

keepcalmandbeninja 07-03-2011 07:53 AM

I reckon he will last the season also I am of the position that JM gets excessive criticism for his dealings with youngsters, if anything people here should be berating unprofessionalism or work ethic of the sergei kostitsyns rather than Jacques Martin..furthermore many other teams let go players who did not work out for them and then their new team is lauded for reclaiming the project etc...some players are suited for other teams and vice versa...

I like JM style of making the team a solid organized unified unit...I remember Ryan Smyth complimenting that very system, also I remember JM with half a squad and half the talent we have here doing really good work with Florida...

JM is the first coach we had in ages who had significant experience I am tired of being the farm club for coaching 101 we should primarily hire coaches who make us win yes but usually that should be a coach with a good CV.

Lastly I will point out what Boivin clearly stated in the past as true and a handicap, if we limit ourselves do a limited crop of talent in any position we also limit the probabilities of success.

dcyhabs 07-03-2011 08:52 AM

He will still be here.

Some of our young guys will again be doing better elsewhere. It would be nice if the young guys were more professional, but it is not the '70s, they have options and the coach has to find a way to get production from them here.

The team would have to tank pretty bad for Martin to go. On the positive side Muller is in the AHL, available as a replacement.

neofury* 07-03-2011 09:58 AM

He will still be here, a few reasons why.

1) One of the best coaches in the NHL. Don't let habs fans fool you, he's one of the best and most experienced. He doesn't have a cup ring. Like Lindy Ruff he's a great coach just no cup yet.

2) We've had success with him. Whether it's going to the ECF with key players missing or nearly beating the Bruins in 7 with an even more depleted roster, this guy knows what it takes to win. (System)

3) Players have bought into the system and for every SK, Pouliot or Lapierre there are guys like Plekanec, Darche, Eller, who buy into the system learn it and play it well.

4) There's nobody realistic to replace him with.

5) We're going to have more success with him down the road.

6) For every youngster he deals with "poorly" (not my words :P) there's a person like PK Subban, Andrei Kostitsyn (been better all around since Martin, no coincidence) Eller, who play well and he deserves credit for that. I included Kostitsyn because he's been up/down and never really proved consistency yet. I think he'll have another big year/stride in the right direction.

Ollie Williams 07-03-2011 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neofury (Post 34582463)
He will still be here, a few reasons why.

1) One of the best coaches in the NHL. Don't let habs fans fool you, he's one of the best and most experienced. He doesn't have a cup ring. Like Lindy Ruff he's a great coach just no cup yet.

2) We've had success with him. Whether it's going to the ECF with key players missing or nearly beating the Bruins in 7 with an even more depleted roster, this guy knows what it takes to win. (System)

3) Players have bought into the system and for every SK, Pouliot or Lapierre there are guys like Plekanec, Darche, Eller, who buy into the system learn it and play it well.

4) There's nobody realistic to replace him with.


5) We're going to have more success with him down the road.

6) For every youngster he deals with "poorly" (not my words :P) there's a person like PK Subban, Andrei Kostitsyn (been better all around since Martin, no coincidence) Eller, who play well and he deserves credit for that. I included Kostitsyn because he's been up/down and never really proved consistency yet. I think he'll have another big year/stride in the right direction.

I agree 100% but the bolded part is really what I would say.

bcv 07-03-2011 10:36 AM

I'm not a big fan of him, but he brings good results. Why wouldn't he still be around? Heck, if it continues like this, I think I wouldn't mind an extension.

bcv 07-03-2011 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcv (Post 34583259)
I'm not a big fan of him, but he brings good results. Why wouldn't he still be around? Heck, if it continues like this, I think I wouldn't mind an extension.

Only know on him is that he doesn't encourage "violence". I'd like him to encourage defending your teammates. That means, SIGN SOMEONE WHO CAN GOD DAMNIT.

macavoy 07-03-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcv (Post 34583259)
I'm not a big fan of him, but he brings good results. Why wouldn't he still be around? Heck, if it continues like this, I think I wouldn't mind an extension.

I'd only give him 1 more year after this season. Either he can win with this group or he can't imo.

Kriss E 07-03-2011 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macavoy (Post 34585187)
I'd only give him 1 more year after this season. Either he can win with this group or he can't imo.

So what you're saying is that you believe our group is good enough to win it all?

And taking such a black/white approach is rather foolish. What if Price gets injured and only plays 20games, as well as other players getting injured yet again, will you hold him responsible and fire him because he couldn't win with Budaj?

JLP 07-03-2011 10:51 PM

Worth noting that the last three coaches standing this year's playoffs -- Boucher, Julien and Vigneault -- were all in the Habs organization.

I want to give Martin a vote of confidence and certainly hope he leads us to success this year but I think his weakness is dealing with young forwards, whom he wants to play too defensively. Have a hard time seeing how we can win big if we're 22nd in the league in scoring. So, again, I think if the Lats, Kosty and Pouliot trio outscore most of our forwards next season Martin may get called on this.

@neofury: It could be said that Eller didn't get a proper chance and that Subban's skills have little to do with Martin, if a coach is responsible at all maybe it's Boucher. Ditto Pacioretty / Desharnais.

Dekar 07-04-2011 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollie Williams (Post 34583121)
I agree 100% but the bolded part is really what I would say.

Kirk Muller is only in the AHL now. He'd surely be the next guy to go after if Martin got canned.

Rakuten06 07-04-2011 02:00 AM

I agree, I think Jacques Martin will remain as coach for the Habs even if we are short of a OT Goal against the Bruins. However, I had one concern about his coaching over the offensive young players though because we need to score, even in powerplay (PK Subban has come nicely through PP opportunities).

Maybe one more year and let's see what happens after 2012 Playoffs.

Hackett 07-04-2011 02:04 AM

As long as the players keep buying in, he's here to stay... so far the players are responding

That's all that matters about pro coaching... all of them know their hockey but the moment they stop listening to you, you're done.

jrk 07-04-2011 07:45 AM

Since the lock out we have a good year followed by a bad year. Last year was a bad year so 2011-2012 will be a good year. I expect PG saying that this year the cup is the goal from the start.

Vanek20 07-04-2011 07:55 AM

Best coach we had in a LONG LONG time. I love JM and he will stay our coach till the end of his contract.

FlyingKostitsyn 07-04-2011 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain G (Post 34628217)
Best coach we had in a LONG LONG time. I love JM and he will stay our coach till the end of his contract.

Yeah we tend to underestimate him.. Most of his ''WTF'' moves had some thinking behind them, wether we agree or not. Benching PK for instance turned out to work pretty well for the young defensemen's career. He's been MUCH better since then (he was pretty inconsistant at the beginning of the season)

Teufelsdreck 07-04-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk (Post 34628109)
Since the lock out we have a good year followed by a bad year. Last year was a bad year so 2011-2012 will be a good year. I expect PG saying that this year the cup is the goal from the start.

Why was last seson bad? The Habs finished 2nd in their division to the Cup winner and 6th in the East. They had a better regular season record than the team that went to the ECF and failed by 1 goal to advance. As for having a better year in 2011-12, it's possible but I don't take it for granted. It's all relative to the opposition. I see significant improvement in at least 4 teams in the East: Caps, Rangers, Leafs, and most significantly, the Sabres, as well as possible improvement in the Devils and Islanders. I would have added the Panthers were it not for their losing Vokoun.

Ollie Williams 07-04-2011 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam19 (Post 34623409)
So assuming Lemaire was asking about 5M a year.
And asuming you could choose from every coach in the league...

Name me the ones that should be ahead of JM in Montreal?
Can you give me three names?

I'm not sure I understand your question. I could choose way more than 3 names of coaches in the league I would take right now over JM. But that's irrelevant as they are already on a team...

dcal64 07-04-2011 11:28 AM

Most people thought that Kirk Muller was the reason behind the Habs success, this year we will see if it was Jacques Martin all long.

I have a feeling that if we encounter any prolonged losing streak, the vets will rebel and Martin will be toast (he just doesn't have the respect Kirk did to keep this team together). Still haven't read any player comments praising Martin's work, only players praising Kirk.

Halak saved him the first year, Price last year, let's see if he gets lucky again. My gut says no.

Kriss E 07-04-2011 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcal64 (Post 34633105)
Most people thought that Kirk Muller was the reason behind the Habs success, this year we will see if it was Jacques Martin all long.

I have a feeling that if we encounter any prolonged losing streak, the vets will rebel and Martin will be toast (he just doesn't have the respect Kirk did to keep this team together). Still haven't read any player comments praising Martin's work, only players praising Kirk.

Halak saved him the first year, Price last year, let's see if he gets lucky again. My gut says no.

That's because Kirk left. Didn't hear any player praise Muller before he left, except when asked a question about him.

Never heard players talk about Babcock or Ruff either, unless, again, they were asked a question about them.

People had a ***** for Muller because he was the one talking during the timeouts. That's pretty much it.

I think he did a good job here based on what the players said. He seemed like a good assistant coach, that took care of the players like an assistant should, but also stuck by the head coach's decisions. It really seemed like a great fit. Maybe it wasn't the case, can't know for sure. But I have no reason to doubt Martin. You can't agree with every decision a coach makes, you may not like his style/attitude, but one thing for sure is that our team doesn't look like the country club it was under Carbo.
Looking forward to seeing who the replacement will be.

Ollie Williams 07-04-2011 01:00 PM

The way people talk about Kirk here would make you think JM is brain-dead and is just the face of the coaching staff where Kirk does all the real work.

Miller Time 07-04-2011 01:30 PM

I voted he'll be back...

But only b/c I want to believe we will sneak into the playoffs again, and as long as we do I'd be surprised to see him not get an extension.

If we do stumble, and miss the Playoffs, one of him or PG will b on the way out, if not both.

habitue* 07-04-2011 01:34 PM

Martin is like Gomez...

We all dream they gonna disappear, but they gonna stay 'til the very end of their contract.

Kriss E 07-04-2011 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller Time (Post 34638455)
I voted he'll be back...

But only b/c I want to believe we will sneak into the playoffs again, and as long as we do I'd be surprised to see him not get an extension.

If we do stumble, and miss the Playoffs, one of him or PG will b on the way out, if not both.

We didn't sneak into the POs last year despite our many problems. Those problems will be fixed by season's start, so why exactly would we sneak into them this time around?

Teufelsdreck 07-04-2011 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller Time (Post 34638455)
I voted he'll be back...

But only b/c I want to believe we will sneak into the playoffs again, and as long as we do I'd be surprised to see him not get an extension.

If we do stumble, and miss the Playoffs, one of him or PG will b on the way out, if not both.

It won't be PG. He's made useful changes to the Habs and they've been in the playoffs (and played well once in) two years in a row. He resisted the hysteria around Halak; signed the elusive Yemelin (whose name some people thought was really Yeti), traded up to draft Tinordi; brought in Cole and a backup for Price; retained the useful Darche; re-signed Markov, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, Pacioretty, and Gill; and plugged the holes resulting from the massive injuries to Dmen.

If the Habs don't make the playoffs the judgment on JM will be influenced by the injury situation; if it's light the Habs should get in, although there'll be stiffer competition from the Devils and Leafs this time.


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