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-   -   The Habs Forgotten Weak Spot (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=942201)

Lshap 07-03-2011 07:33 AM

The Habs Forgotten Weak Spot
 
Dumb minor penalties!

We had the second-highest amount of minor penalties in the league (Pittsburgh was #1) with 363, many of which were just careless mistakes like slashing, tripping, delay of game. Yeah, our PK was good, but each PK is another two minutes we're not scoring. Not too many major penalties, but those damn annoying minor penalties put us amongst the worst teams in terms of total minutes on the PK.

Biggest offender on the team was Subban, who was approx. 26th in the league in PIM. Next worst was Pouliot.

Imagine how much more effective our offense can be if Subban has learned from his mistakes (I believe he has) and now that Benoit has gone.

Skarjak 07-03-2011 07:46 AM

The good news is that with Harmlik gone, we will no longer be at the top of the league for delay of the game penalties. -_-

Megaforce 07-03-2011 08:45 AM

I think the weak spot is the lack of young talented forwards who will get better.

Pacioretty would be the one and only. You might try to horn Desharnais into that, but I like to see a young hot player develop into a star and we dont have that.

Qui Gon Dave 07-03-2011 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarjak (Post 34581275)
The good news is that with Harmlik gone, we will no longer be at the top of the league for delay of the game penalties. -_-

Nope, but we'll have to pick up that slack with a few more too many men calls. Some might not think it possible, but it's best to have an open mind when going into a new season. Where there is a will, there is a way. And where there is a bench, Habs will gladly jump over it, even if they aren't supposed to just yet.

LyricalLyricist 07-03-2011 08:49 AM

I thought you were gonna say "size down middle in top 6" tbh. Subban will learn. The rest of the team was alright so I can't imagine it being worse this year.

neofury* 07-03-2011 08:52 AM

"The habs forgotten weak spot" ... "Minor penalties" ... "Pouliot" ...

Forgotten? Where is Pouliot on the roster? Imo it's been remembered very well.

RoyBoyCoy 07-03-2011 08:59 AM

Pouliot and Hamrlik are gone, and they were dumb penalty specialists. PK will still have that problem, but he's learning. And in a way his penalties are just a side-effect of the type of high-octane hockey he plays, so it's easier to swallow as a fan. Gomez and Moen take a lot of penalties too.

AGalchenyuk27 07-03-2011 09:22 AM

Many of our penalties resulted in faceoff losses in the defensive zone, allowing the other team to have puck possession, apply pressure and force us to take a penalty.

bcv 07-03-2011 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyBoyCoy (Post 34582479)
Pouliot and Hamrlik are gone, and they were dumb penalty specialists. PK will still have that problem, but he's learning. And in a way his penalties are just a side-effect of the type of high-octane hockey he plays, so it's easier to swallow as a fan. Gomez and Moen take a lot of penalties too.

Moen? Without any stats, I'm pretty sure he doesn't take a lot of minor penalties.. I always see him on the PK.

Estimated_Prophet 07-03-2011 09:37 AM

The real problem is Martin's system.

He allows the opposition to control the puck and tries to retrieve it by blocking passing/shooting lanes. This results in alot of interference calls as they are predominantly made against the team without the puck.

The good news is that this problem is being addressed. The reason Martin uses these tactics is to insulate a a slow defence core. He can reduce odd man rushes and force teams to go east to west on the breakout giving Gill/Spacek/Hamrlik/Sopel/Mara achance to get back and maintain proper gap control.

With a more mobile D, he should open up the forecheck a little more which in turn will result in a better pp/pk ratio as we should be in control of the puck more often.........not to mention that Erik Cole probably draws more penalties than anyone in the NHL!

BaseballCoach 07-03-2011 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lshap (Post 34581129)
Dumb minor penalties!

We had the second-highest amount of minor penalties in the league (Pittsburgh was #1) with 363.....

Maybe now that we have Erik Cole, he can bring along some of the magic that made Carolina a perennial leader in penalty differential.

Ozymandias 07-03-2011 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarjak (Post 34581275)
The good news is that with Harmlik gone, we will no longer be at the top of the league for delay of the game penalties. -_-

Actually Hamrlik was our best D at even strenght by a mile and we will be missing him, and that's why the Habs tried twice to re-sign him.

I will post a thread in not too long that will have people question their 'view' of Hamr.

We have Subban, Gill and Gorges who are all among the best PKers in the league. And Markov is pretty good too.

walsy37 07-03-2011 09:50 AM

This issue actually makes me very nervous for (Y)emelin. Even in the KHL, which ia a considerably more hook and grab leaugue the guy was a penalty machine. He looks very tough and strong - but if he is in the box constantly because the NHL is a speed game, this could be a big issue.

MarkovsKnee 07-03-2011 09:50 AM

Well, considering that Subban played more than 24 minutes in a game and played against players like Marchand, Richards, et al, while Pouliot played less than 12 minutes, the biggest offender was really Pouliot.

I also have no problems with Subban's slashing penalties. D-men slash. Slash, cross-check, and rough up.

The fact that Pouliot is gone is going to help a lot, with the stupid penalties. And, yeah, Hammer isn't around to take the delay-of-game penalties too, although stupid bench penalties were a major problem last year too. I expect JM to correct those this year.

Estimated_Prophet 07-03-2011 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozymandias (Post 34583585)
Actually Hamrlik was our best D at even strenght by a mile and we will be missing him, and that's why the Habs tried twice to re-sign him.

I will post a thread in not too long that will have people question their 'view' of Hamr.

I would have loved to have seen Hamrlik re-signed.

Don't know why you want to educate the unwilling.....I used to do the same thing years ago and have learned that for every person you enlighten there are countless newbies that will recyce the same nonsense you just debunked.......

It becomes very tiresome

Estimated_Prophet 07-03-2011 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walsy37 (Post 34583601)
This issue actually makes me very nervous for (Y)emelin. Even in the KHL, which ia a considerably more hook and grab leaugue the guy was a penalty machine. He looks very tough and strong - but if he is in the box constantly because the NHL is a speed game, this could be a big issue.

Hopefully on the smaller rink he will have more opportunities to clobber people and won't have to resort to hooking them into his killzone...

MasterD 07-03-2011 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megaforce (Post 34582193)
I think the weak spot is the lack of young talented forwards who will get better.

Pacioretty would be the one and only. You might try to horn Desharnais into that, but I like to see a young hot player develop into a star and we dont have that.

Eller

Analyzer* 07-03-2011 11:01 AM

I didn't like Hamrlik, but Subban took way more dumb penalties than he and Pouliot combined.

So, the rash of dumb penalties will still be here.

Gill, Yemelin, and White will probably step it up.

Estimated_Prophet 07-03-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterD (Post 34584127)
Eller

I think Eller will develop into a legitimate top 6 forward but I don't think he will be a star.

JGRB 07-03-2011 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarjak (Post 34581275)
The good news is that with Harmlik gone, we will no longer be at the top of the league for delay of the game penalties. -_-

We will probably get delay of game penalties whenever Hal Gill skates with the puck. :sarcasm:

Getting rid of Pouliot is start, although I expect Emelin to take some NASTY penalties here that might get him in trouble with Martin. Subban I think will calm down a little but still get lots of penalties.

It will still be a problem.

compile 07-03-2011 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozymandias (Post 34583585)
Actually Hamrlik was our best D at even strenght by a mile and we will be missing him, and that's why the Habs tried twice to re-sign him.

I will post a thread in not too long that will have people question their 'view' of Hamr.

We have Subban, Gill and Gorges who are all among the best PKers in the league. And Markov is pretty good too.

Tried to re-sign him twice?

First I've heard of that.

He was offered something and he rejected it. Don't see how that's attempting "twice."

Lemons 07-03-2011 11:19 AM

People have to know the PK was always paired up against the oppositions best lines. 21 year old kid first full year trying to stop Crosby, Ovech, Nash, Kovulchuk... its not easy

Talks to Goalposts 07-03-2011 11:51 AM

PK was a penalty drawing ninja as well. His penalties for/against ratio is pretty good for a defenseman despite his high amount of minors. Pacioretty was a great penalty drawer last season and Cole draws more than he takes throughout his career. Hamrlik, Pouliot and Eller were the worst offenders in ratio but two are gone and Eller was getting much better as the year went on.

I ran a study on it near the end of the season:
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...-young-players

RoyBoyCoy 07-03-2011 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcv (Post 34583029)
Moen? Without any stats, I'm pretty sure he doesn't take a lot of minor penalties.. I always see him on the PK.

Admittedly, he's not as bad as the others.. but the penalties he takes are often ill-advised.

Lshap 07-03-2011 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts (Post 34588829)
PK was a penalty drawing ninja as well. His penalties for/against ratio is pretty good for a defenseman despite his high amount of minors. Pacioretty was a great penalty drawer last season and Cole draws more than he takes throughout his career. Hamrlik, Pouliot and Eller were the worst offenders in ratio but two are gone and Eller was getting much better as the year went on.

I ran a study on it near the end of the season:
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...-young-players

Great information - thanks!

Can you elaborate on the huge discrepancy between the 18.8 PP and 83.8 PK? That's a huge ratio, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.


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