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-   -   Shane McColgan, regular draft or steal of the century? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=945703)

Amazing Kreiderman 07-07-2011 02:57 AM

Shane McColgan, regular draft or steal of the century?
 
Shane McColgan got drafted in the 5th round by the Rangers which is actually amazing considering he was one of the top prospects less than a year ago. He was rumoured to be drafted right before or after RNH.

Will his late draft be a sign of weakness and will he just be a regular winger or did the other teams completely overlook his qualities and can he surprise the world by adding something to our team shortly?

What do you guys think?

Kane One 07-07-2011 03:15 AM

What I want to know is why we have a hefty amount of short people in the system.

eco's bones 07-07-2011 03:35 AM

I think it was an excellent pick where we got him but how it works out remains to be seen. It sounds like he has the wheels--and is both a creative and agressive player. Size is an issue--if nothing else he's going to have to fill out and get stronger which most players will do just naturally. The other thing is how he fits into the team--and there is a saturation point when it comes to a team being too small. A team maybe two--three forwards at the most with his size. I definitely think he's got a legit shot though at being a productive NHL player and for a 5th rounder in a so-so draft that's pretty good.

t3hg00se 07-07-2011 04:04 AM

He is 5'11.

His height won't hold him back. There is a chance he could play at 6' FFS.

Kane One 07-07-2011 04:10 AM

The Rangers have him down on the website as 5'8"

http://rangers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476375

t3hg00se 07-07-2011 04:13 AM

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=117539

Hockey DB has him at 5'11.

He doesn't look 5'11 though.

I'd trust the Rangers source more too.

ocarina 07-07-2011 05:16 AM

I liked the pick, but it's really not that big a deal. Seth Ambroz was also considered a potential top 10 pick this year, and he also fell to the 5th round.

Granted, McColgan doesn't have anywhere near the issues that Ambroz does, but if he really was that good, he wouldn't of been sitting there when we took him.

Beacon 07-07-2011 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 34761433)
What I want to know is why we have a hefty amount of short people in the system.

Because a big guy with top skill goes first overall. A big guy with second line skills goes in the top half a dozen. If you don't have a top-5 pick, you have to make sacrifices. But what do you sacrifice: size or skill?

Most fans prefer to sacrifice skill because you cannot pretend that someone is 6'2 when he is 5'10, but you can pretend that someone with third line skills has high potential when he is dominanting teens who will never even be minor leaguers.

Then fans wonder why we have so many grinders and so few scorers.

The team is focusing on small guys now because we need scorers. Offensively talented big guys are not available in round 5. In fact, they are usually not available outside of the top-10 unless they have other problems, such as they are very raw (Jessiman, Kreider), they were injured, they had a bad season before getting drafted, they are tough to coach headaches, they may not come to the US, etc.

I know everyone wanted the Rangers to draft Stamkos in the fifth round, but that just ain't happening.

When you are drafting in the fifth round, you have to understand that there must have been a reason the mud fell so far down. If you get Marc Savard with a late pick, you don't complain that he is only 5'10.

Ola 07-07-2011 05:32 AM

Hehe, if he is that type of steal, we certainly don't know it considering how long we waited to take him... ;)

xxxZENxxx 07-07-2011 07:54 AM

You have to be happy with how well he played in the development camp. He showed like he was a seasoned prospect and played like he was 6'2''. He could indeed be a major steal, BUT height is always an issue. We will see.

TheGrapesOfMcIlrath 07-07-2011 08:33 AM

What's encouraging is that there were apparent reasons for his lack of improvement over the previous juniors season. This was a great risk/reward pick for a 5th rounder. However, this is the kind of guy we shoudn't put heavy expectations on. He was a 5th round pick, and we have a ton of depth. Just let him develop for a few years, and maybe we will have a real gem on our hands down the line. If not, it's only a 5th round pick.

x BEUKEBOOM x 07-07-2011 08:55 AM

Just speculation on my part.

But maybe Kalowna didnt develop him properly considering all the hype of potential he had after coming out of the USA program???

FWIW, I read a Sports Illustrated artical about Myers, Johnson, Bogo & someone else, where Myers said he felt going to Kelowna was the best thing that happen in his career to date because they have a rep for developing outstanding defensive players such as Weber, Shenn, & Keith.

Jamie Benn & Blake Comeau are the most notible forwards to come out of the Kelowna program.

Maybe their Jr draft philosophy is to draft BPA with highest offensive potential and hope for the best while the defence carries the team as their opperating budget/local doesnt allow for an offensive talent to come in and teach? I have read somewhere they opperate on a shoestring budget compared to other WHL teams.

Like I said though, just speculation putting bits of info together to come up with an educated guess. I could be totally wrong or only partialy right.

Leetch3 07-07-2011 08:56 AM

potential steal and high value pick but we are getting way ahead of ourselves...lets see in 2 years when he is ready to turn pro how things look. there is a reason he plummeted down the draft rankings.

Poozer 07-07-2011 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelation (Post 34764585)
What's encouraging is that there were apparent reasons for his lack of improvement over the previous juniors season. This was a great risk/reward pick for a 5th rounder. However, this is the kind of guy we shoudn't put heavy expectations on. He was a 5th round pick, and we have a ton of depth. Just let him develop for a few years, and maybe we will have a real gem on our hands down the line. If not, it's only a 5th round pick.

Can you elaborate on the apparent reasons? I don't know too much about him, other than his good first year numbers and his identical second year numbers... on a positive note I did notice that he performed really well in the playoffs (better than RNH for that matter).

Punxrocknyc19* 07-07-2011 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocarina (Post 34762301)
I liked the pick, but it's really not that big a deal. Seth Ambroz was also considered a potential top 10 pick this year, and he also fell to the 5th round.

Granted, McColgan doesn't have anywhere near the issues that Ambroz does, but if he really was that good, he wouldn't of been sitting there when we took him.

So Lundquist wasn't good before the 2000 draft because he was a late round pick...what about Zetterberg another late round pick and Girardi who was never drafted???

SupersonicMonkey* 07-07-2011 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerEsq (Post 34762325)
Because a big guy with top skill goes first overall. A big guy with second line skills goes in the top half a dozen. If you don't have a top-5 pick, you have to make sacrifices. But what do you sacrifice: size or skill?

Most fans prefer to sacrifice skill because you cannot pretend that someone is 6'2 when he is 5'10, but you can pretend that someone with third line skills has high potential when he is dominanting teens who will never even be minor leaguers.

Then fans wonder why we have so many grinders and so few scorers.

The team is focusing on small guys now because we need scorers. Offensively talented big guys are not available in round 5. In fact, they are usually not available outside of the top-10 unless they have other problems, such as they are very raw (Jessiman, Kreider), they were injured, they had a bad season before getting drafted, they are tough to coach headaches, they may not come to the US, etc.

I know everyone wanted the Rangers to draft Stamkos in the fifth round, but that just ain't happening.

When you are drafting in the fifth round, you have to understand that there must have been a reason the mud fell so far down. If you get Marc Savard with a late pick, you don't complain that he is only 5'10.

First off, size and grit doesn't equal third line grinder and small doesn't equal top six star.

This argument you keep trying to make won't become more true the more you harp on it.

Kreider wasn't "raw". He had pro size, speed, hands, and shot, and drive, the only concern would be if he would be one dimensional or not. He isn't. He's a legitimate two way player now.

Miller is NOT a third line grinder and the fact you repeatedly assume so means you never seen him play. Miller has SO much more offensive talent and is so much more complete a player then McColgan its not even a debate. Miller has the vision, hands, shot to be a high-end offensive player. He just so happens to have the drive, grit, and two way play that separates him from other players.

Your Grimaldi, McColgan, St. Croix, Bourque, Zuccarello, Dawes players don't go in the first round and/or go undrafted for a reason.

McColgan at 5-8 can play against 16 year olds but when it comes time to play against 20+ year olds is where these guys have a problem. And when theyre not recording a goal per game theyre not contributing.

Kreiders and Millers make it and stick because they can handle and dish out the physical play and have the offensive skill to go with it.

McColgan's chances of reaching the NHL let alone being a steal, are slim to none.

Kreider and Miller chances of reaching the NHL and being a steal are exponentially higher so much it isn't even a debate.

Draft Guru 07-07-2011 09:14 AM

The kid got drafted two weeks ago. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. There's reasons why a player gets passed on by teams 4 times, and some even 5.

I'm sure every other team and their fan base feels the same way about most of their picks..."wow, what a steal at that spot"...."I can't believe this guy fell that far"...etc, etc, etc.

Let's see what he does this upcoming season before we start considering him a steal.

TheGrapesOfMcIlrath 07-07-2011 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poozer (Post 34765123)
Can you elaborate on the apparent reasons? I don't know too much about him, other than his good first year numbers and his identical second year numbers... on a positive note I did notice that he performed really well in the playoffs (better than RNH for that matter).

He supposedly was weakened pretty bad by tonsilitis. He lost a bunch of weight and missed training camp and the first 2 weeks of the season. Speculation was that he wasn't really 100% for a while after that. He picked up his game late in the season and had a great playoffs. Real wildcard type of pick, but definite steal potential. If his production had stalled for no apparent reason, I would be very concerned. But, if it really was the illness making him unable to take the next step, we could have a very dangerous player on our hands. It's good that he gets to develop without the expectations being a high pick would bring.

nyr2k2 07-07-2011 09:43 AM

LOL, yes, WHAT A STEAL!!!!

He was a good value pick, but there's a reason the kid slipped. Let's see what he can do over the next few years before declaring him a steal.

broadwayblue 07-07-2011 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma Royd (Post 34766551)
LOL, yes, WHAT A STEAL!!!!

He was a good value pick, but there's a reason the kid slipped. Let's see what he can do over the next few years before declaring him a steal.

So we shouldn't pencil him in on the LW next to Richards and Gaborik to start the season? :naughty:

cooper7d7 07-07-2011 10:00 AM

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...?articleid=993

"This is an all or nothing pick, as McColgan has plus puck skills and is an above-average skater and shooter—he'll either play scoring minutes or he simply won't play a game in the league"

offdacrossbar 07-07-2011 10:12 AM

as a 5th rounder, in this draft, hes a very good pick.

its 50/50 he ever plays a game for us, but at the time, it was a good value pick and i agreed with it.

2 years from now we'll know if that paid off or not.

wolfgaze 07-07-2011 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 34761433)
What I want to know is why we have a hefty amount of short people in the system.

Short is the new tall.

Pizza 07-07-2011 10:40 AM

I've learned that is always better to be pleasantly surprised by a pick any where past the 2nd round. The chances that a player picked 3rd round or later making the NHL, being a solid contributor or even more remote, a game changer are very slim.

Hagelin, Fasth and Yogan would be prime examples of this. There is a chance all three could contribute nicely to the Rangers at some point.

Regardless of the odds though it's still a solid pick cause ya just never know. Gordie seems to excel at this.

Trxjw 07-07-2011 10:58 AM

As it's been stated, he was a great value at that point in the draft. However, that's about all you can say about his history or future with the Rangers so far. He has a big mountain to climb before we can even think about penciling him into the line-up at this level, let alone start using the "s" word.


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