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-   -   Is it Necessarily a Good Idea to Spend to the Cap? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=945967)

DAChampion 07-07-2011 12:36 PM

Is it Necessarily a Good Idea to Spend to the Cap?
 
Right now Montreal has 8 million in cap space and is only missing Gorges and two bottom 6 forwards, so we really have ~3-4 million in cap space. The team looks like this:

Cammalleri-Plekanec-Cole
Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
AK46-Desharnais-Moen
Darche-Eller

Markov-Spacek
Gill-Subban
Emelin-Weber

(Gorges and White are unsigned, Eller starts the season injured)

Price
Budaj

As I've argued elsewhere on this forum, this is a fantastic team in the absence of injuries. Is it worth it to pick up one of the remaining veteran UFAs of quality (Kovalev, Hannan, etc) to improve the team, or pick something up by trade, to use up our cap space? Or should we hold the course?

I think we still should on the condition of it being 1-year contracts. If there are not many great UFAs left, you should not be too eager to spend to the cap if you risk using up all your cap space both this year and following years.

alexstream 07-07-2011 12:44 PM

Well, the cap won't go up next season, count on it. There might even be a lockout in order to kick the Cap back down.

so any place we have now, we MUST keep it in order to re-sign Price and Subban. They won't come cheap. probably around 4-5M a piece.

AntonCH 07-07-2011 12:46 PM

Keep the space
you never know when you'll have the chance to add a Vinnie / Stamkos / Doughty type player

jadensdad 07-07-2011 01:12 PM

In this market you should try to spend to the cap. We have such high revenues and profits, that what ever we save we have to give a percentage in revenue sharing anyways. The team makes so much dough that they should do everything possible to try to win.

bcv 07-07-2011 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadensdad (Post 34775285)
In this market you should try to spend to the cap. We have such high revenues and profits, that what ever we save we have to give a percentage in revenue sharing anyways. The team makes so much dough that they should do everything possible to try to win.

Yes, but if the team doesn't need more players/anything, they don't need to spend to the cap.

Melvin Udall 07-07-2011 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexstream (Post 34773905)
Well, the cap won't go up next season, count on it. There might even be a lockout in order to kick the Cap back down.

so any place we have now, we MUST keep it in order to re-sign Price and Subban. They won't come cheap. probably around 4-5M a piece.



Amen to that brother!



:amazed:

groovejuice 07-07-2011 01:25 PM

You need to keep some buffer space in the cap for getting replacements for injured players, trading up at the deadline, etc.....

Et le But 07-07-2011 01:26 PM

Spending to the cap just for its own sake makes no sense. You never know when cap flexibility will prove to be valuable.

Bill McNeal 07-07-2011 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexstream (Post 34773905)
Well, the cap won't go up next season, count on it. There might even be a lockout in order to kick the Cap back down.

so any place we have now, we MUST keep it in order to re-sign Price and Subban. They won't come cheap. probably around 4-5M a piece.

The league just added Winnipeg in lieu of Atlanta, is coming off a season that saw another big market, original 6 team win the Cup and the Canadian dollar is as strong as ever. I can't imagine the cap not going up again. Might not be as drastic of an increase as this year, but I don't see any signs of it going down other than fans and media getting upset that spending is out of control again.

And I can't see another lockout occurring. The owners won't even try to lower the cap ceiling, might try to get the cap floor down a bit and sort out these front loaded contracts, but there are no issues worth losing another season over. Especially not after they won the last PR battle and would be unlikely to win another. If they do somehow decide to lower the cap ceiling, they'll also implement measures for teams to deal with it. Roll backs, one-time buyout period, etc. But again, can't see it happening.

As for Price and Subban, with Spacek and Moen coming off the books, not to mention Gill and Kostitsyn if need be, there's plenty of money available for them. Spending to the cap this year won't affect that. Not that I advocate needlessly adding salary just to keep up the image that we're a cap-spending team, but if you're PG and you see an opportunity to improve your team with that 4M in space we'll have left over, don't let worries about Subban and Price stop you.

MoobMoob 07-07-2011 01:36 PM

If you can address needs with the cap space, you do it. If you can't there's no point. Right now the habs needs are:
bottom line toughness(winchester?)
toughness on the blueline(O'brien?)
a defensively responsible bottom line center(Madden?)

All three of these are possible to be addressed with the space available for 1-year contracts and probably still have some space remaining. If Gorges won't sign for less than 3mil, Hannan would be a better option, imo.

BaseballCoach 07-07-2011 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoobMoob (Post 34776471)
If you can address needs with the cap space, you do it. If you can't there's no point. Right now the habs needs are:
bottom line toughness(winchester?)
toughness on the blueline(O'brien?)
a defensively responsible bottom line center(Madden?)

I don't think we need the third item.

We HAD a defensively responsible bottom line center last year in Halpern, and we had to move him to the wing when Desharnais came up.

Keep our 4 skilled centers, Eller having size too, and add one more winger maybe.

katatoniak 07-07-2011 02:16 PM

If the salary go down ... do the salary of already signed playr go down to. I mean, salary cap drop from 10% and the player's salary and cap hit drop 10%

schumway2 07-07-2011 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katatoniak (Post 34778515)
If the salary go down ... do the salary of already signed playr go down to. I mean, salary cap drop from 10% and the player's salary and cap hit drop 10%

If they lower the cap I imagine there's going to be another free buyout period like they did after the lockout.

swimmer77 07-07-2011 02:29 PM

If you have needs to fill then to me there's no point in leaving money on the table because cap space can't score worth a darn or defend. Right now the Habs have cap space and needs. I don't know that Cole himself will solve the lack of scoring. And the D as it stands is one injury away from being a disaster.

Aurel Joliat 07-07-2011 02:48 PM

It's not because you are at the salary cap that you have a better team.

Just check Colorado 2 years ago, they had difficulty to reach the floor but was 1st a long time and make the playoffs

neofury* 07-07-2011 04:34 PM

I don't think you can miss bringing Kovy back for close to league minimum.

He loves this city and despite a surprising majority of people around here who don't seem to like him a lot of people here do and want him to retire a hab. I feel the same about Koivu. Both those guys did a lot for this team and city. I want Kovalev to come here. If he sucks he can just retire a hab after one season. If he doesn't it's a win scenario for us. He may have lost a step but for the most part when he played with us he played well. People say he only used to show up one night out a five, I'm not saying he did show up every game but he certainly did show up more often then that.

I think it's a win/win scenario 1 year deal limited use of the cap, if he doesn't perform no worries. If he does perform we come up big. One thing Kovalev would be extremely useful for is if we used him as a PP specialist to apply pressure and keep the puck in the other teams end. If he was played with limited minutes on the PP and other times he'd be a fine winger for the 3rd line. Eller is injured anyways give that line something to work with early on.

I'd be all for signing Kovy.

AntonCH 07-07-2011 04:40 PM

Kovy doesn't fill any current needs
so why?

Physical HABuse 07-07-2011 05:21 PM

Two words for everyone wanting Kovalev back......MOVE ON!
This is a team we want to build with speed.....he doesn't have it. We want to add grit.....he doesn't have it. We want to add skill.....sure......he's good if we're making a skills video but we want skill to translate to success on the ice. It isn't anymore. He's so far on the back end of his career, mentally and physically, he doesn't fit what we are trying to do with this team anymore. I can't understand why people don't get that.....not for 1 year....not for any.
There are moves that propel the team forward....there are parallel moves....and there are moves that set it backwards. When he first came to the team, it propelled the team forward. Coming back to the team now would set it back.

DAChampion 07-07-2011 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntonCH (Post 34785111)
Kovy doesn't fill any current needs
so why?

The need is:
1) To have someone play in the top-6 other than Darche and Moen once the inevitable simultaneous injuries happen.
2) To be the third player on the Eller-AK46 line when the team is healthy.

AntonCH 07-07-2011 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAChampion (Post 34788821)
The need is:
1) To have someone play in the top-6 other than Darche and Moen once the inevitable simultaneous injuries happen.
2) To be the third player on the Eller-AK46 line when the team is healthy.

Depth guy does not fit the Kovy mold
He's not an immediate fit on any of our top 2 lines
I don't see him as a 3rd line guy, and barring a long walk with Bob Gainey I don't see any upside to his production.
He's just too slow to fit in with the team and skaters that we presently have. If PG had wanted him, don't you think he would've been signed already?

E = CH² 07-07-2011 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neofury (Post 34784893)
I don't think you can miss bringing Kovy back for close to league minimum.

He loves this city and despite a surprising majority of people around here who don't seem to like him a lot of people here do and want him to retire a hab. I feel the same about Koivu. Both those guys did a lot for this team and city. I want Kovalev to come here. If he sucks he can just retire a hab after one season. If he doesn't it's a win scenario for us. He may have lost a step but for the most part when he played with us he played well. People say he only used to show up one night out a five, I'm not saying he did show up every game but he certainly did show up more often then that.

I think it's a win/win scenario 1 year deal limited use of the cap, if he doesn't perform no worries. If he does perform we come up big. One thing Kovalev would be extremely useful for is if we used him as a PP specialist to apply pressure and keep the puck in the other teams end. If he was played with limited minutes on the PP and other times he'd be a fine winger for the 3rd line. Eller is injured anyways give that line something to work with early on.

I'd be all for signing Kovy.

I swear to god you people like the idea of hockey more than reality. Kovalev was done two years ago. He was extra toast last year. How good do you think he'll be now ? IF Gauthier wasn't interested in Jagr, why would he be interested in more drama for less production/talent in Kovalev ? He was used as a PP specialist in Ott/Pitt and he still couldn't produce. What the hell..

dcal64 07-07-2011 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballCoach (Post 34777293)
I don't think we need the third item.

We HAD a defensively responsible bottom line center last year in Halpern, and we had to move him to the wing when Desharnais came up.

Keep our 4 skilled centers, Eller having size too, and add one more winger maybe.

We can't start the year with only Pleks, Gomez, Eller, and Desharnais as our centers, they are all lefties. We need at least one center who's a rightie, and that can win important face-offs.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt 07-07-2011 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexstream (Post 34773905)
Well, the cap won't go up next season, count on it. There might even be a lockout in order to kick the Cap back down.

so any place we have now, we MUST keep it in order to re-sign Price and Subban. They won't come cheap. probably around 4-5M a piece.

Whaaat? Unless Subban does the unmentionable and puts up 50+ pts, he'll get 3.3mil over a couple of years. Price on the other hand.. yeah. Likely 5.5-6.

Miller Time 07-08-2011 03:55 PM

i'd prefer that the team start working from an internal budget, keeping 2-4M$ of cap space free going into every season to allow flexibility in the event that a quality player(s) becomes available in-season or at the deadline, so as to at least be able to make an offer should it be a player that would clearly upgrade/fit our lineup.


since we have the freedom to spend, they could even wait until late august/early september, and then add a veteran (under-35) player or two on a 1-year deal... if the time does come where we need to access more cap space, that player can be sent to the minors to help free up the space.

taking that approach might also dissuade the GM from being as cavalier in overpaying UFA's, and put more emphasis on getting the most out of the assets we have.

sammy d 07-08-2011 11:23 PM

Never spend to the cap, you need the flexibility to make moves later in the season.

New agreement may lower the ceiling, I hear that the league may try to copy the NBA, NFL pending agreements, around a 50/50 split where the NHL is 56/44 I think now. Any team that spends to the cap this year are fools with a new labour agreement coming in 2012.


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