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-   -   Bobrovsky and Couturier questions/comments (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=947855)

braino 07-10-2011 09:32 AM

Bobrovsky and Couturier questions/comments
 
First of all I think Philly made a huge mistake giving Bryzgalov that 9 year deal especially when they had such a young talented goalie like Bobrovsky... I just want to know what happened? They say Bobrovsky worked as hard as anyone...he showed up to the rink before anyone to sit in the stands for 30 minutes (like he was meditating)....than he'd skip, work his tail off....something happened???

Secondly can Sean Couturier push Claude Giroux off to his wing as the number one center on this team? Long term Briere won't be here and neither will Jagr. Question is...will it be Schenn or Couturier or Giroux as the top center?

JVR21 07-10-2011 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braino (Post 34873233)
First of all I think Philly made a huge mistake giving Bryzgalov that 9 year deal especially when they had such a young talented goalie like Bobrovsky... I just want to know what happened? They say Bobrovsky worked as hard as anyone...he showed up to the rink before anyone to sit in the stands for 30 minutes (like he was meditating)....than he'd skip, work his tail off....something happened???

Secondly can Sean Couturier push Claude Giroux off to his wing as the number one center on this team? Long term Briere won't be here and neither will Jagr. Question is...will it be Schenn or Couturier or Giroux as the top center?

1. They wanted a legitimate #1 goaltender....the thing they haven't had in decades.
2. How do you not know this? It's so easy to tell which one will be the top center of the future at this point. :sarcasm:

FlyerEra2010 07-10-2011 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braino (Post 34873233)
They say Bobrovsky worked as hard as anyone...he showed up to the rink before anyone to sit in the stands for 30 minutes (like he was meditating)....than he'd skip, work his tail off....something happened???

Just a performance driven league. We were supposed to be serious contenders last year, but we just barely managed to get out of the first round of the playoffs and got completely outclassed in the second round. Then Snider came out and said he wanted a goalie so Homer went and got a goalie. Bob had a good year for a rookie but he had his fair share of struggles, too. I love him and really hope we keep him, but it is what it is.



Giroux will be the top center long term IMO.

Rick Deckard 07-10-2011 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braino (Post 34873233)
First of all I think Philly made a huge mistake giving Bryzgalov that 9 year deal especially when they had such a young talented goalie like Bobrovsky... I just want to know what happened? They say Bobrovsky worked as hard as anyone...he showed up to the rink before anyone to sit in the stands for 30 minutes (like he was meditating)....than he'd skip, work his tail off....something happened???

Secondly can Sean Couturier push Claude Giroux off to his wing as the number one center on this team? Long term Briere won't be here and neither will Jagr. Question is...will it be Schenn or Couturier or Giroux as the top center?

1. Snider said they need a true number one Goaltender, and Holmgren got one. That had nothing to do with Bobrovsky.

2. Thats far away, but based on their ceiling all three can be a first line center. I think they will try to keep three "equal" lines, everyone getting roughly the same minutes with Couturier getting the hardest defensive match-ups. (pure speculation)

FlyingHigh 07-10-2011 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braino (Post 34873233)
First of all I think Philly made a huge mistake giving Bryzgalov that 9 year deal especially when they had such a young talented goalie like Bobrovsky... I just want to know what happened? They say Bobrovsky worked as hard as anyone...he showed up to the rink before anyone to sit in the stands for 30 minutes (like he was meditating)....than he'd skip, work his tail off....something happened???

Secondly can Sean Couturier push Claude Giroux off to his wing as the number one center on this team? Long term Briere won't be here and neither will Jagr. Question is...will it be Schenn or Couturier or Giroux as the top center?

Pretty much what everyone else is saying. Ed Snider holds the checkbook and if Homer wants to keep his job, he needed to get a #1 goalie. Bryz was the best available, so Bryz is a Flyer. Sucks for Bob, but thats business.

Coots looks like a ideal 3C. Good size, should fill out. Think Brindamour, Primeau, J Staal. Depending on how his offensive game progresses, i think he will be more of a checking center that can pop in 20-30 goals a year, which is awesome. Lavvy likes Giroux at center and with his skill set he is right. Lets hope Giroux = Foppa 2.0 :yo:

funghoul 07-10-2011 11:04 AM

couturier is being compared more to joe thornton than a 3rd liner and people are sayin he would have went a lot higher in the draft (probably number 2) if he didnt come down with mono the first half of the season. I think he will be the best player acquired in all these moves in the long run. hopefully he's good enough this year. I also think bryzgalov will shut everyone up within the 1st 2 games of the season. He's top 3 in the league. as far as bob, he's a great young goalie but i'd rather have a proven already developed vezina candidate. im surprised columbus doesn't look at him, they have curtis sanford backin up mason. throw bob in there and let them battle it out. mason could still be jim carey. young goalies like bob with that kind of term at that price dont come around to often and sanford sucks.

Beef Invictus 07-10-2011 11:55 AM

Flyinghigh pretty much summed up the Bob thing from my perspective. A lot of posters here (myself included) wanted to go after Vokoun for a shorter deal so Bob could take over in a few years.

As for Giroux being pushed out of the center spot by two rookies, I highly doubt that happens.

CS 07-10-2011 12:27 PM

Couts has more offensive potential than a Brind'Amour, Primeau, M. Richards, or E. Staal.

I don't know why people insist on putting J. Staal on that list. J. Staal is probably Couts' basement. I mean he theoretically could fall further, but I consider Couts turning into J. Staal as a disappointment. He's better than that.

Jester 07-10-2011 12:33 PM

Jordan Staal had three 20 goal seasons by the age of 21 and is a defensive stud. That would be disappointing?

Man, you are going to have a seizure if he actually busts.

CS 07-10-2011 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 34877445)
Jordan Staal had three 20 goal seasons by the age of 21 and is a defensive stud. That would be disappointing?

Man, you are going to have a seizure if he actually busts.

Versteeg had three 20-goal seasons in a row.

I'm glad 20-goal seasons mean something significant, I mean if people were so ready to throw him to the wolves and all...

Just to put things into perspective for you, but do you seriously believe Jordan Staal is going to be a significantly stronger offensive player than he is now?

Yes, I consider a 20-goal scoring Couturier to be a disappointment. I want 30-40-70+ from him, not 25-35-60.

Also, disappointment doesn't actually hinge on prediction. It's based on hope, not expectation. Just pointing out that there is actually a difference between hope and expectation.

DrHamburg 07-10-2011 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 34879681)
Versteeg had three 20-goal seasons in a row.

I'm glad 20-goal seasons mean something significant, I mean if people were so ready to throw him to the wolves and all...

Just to put things into perspective for you, but do you seriously believe Jordan Staal is going to be a significantly stronger offensive player than he is now?

Yes, I consider a 20-goal scoring Couturier to be a disappointment. I want 30-40-70+ from him, not 25-35-60.

Also, disappointment doesn't actually hinge on prediction. It's based on hope, not expectation. Just pointing out that there is actually a difference between hope and expectation.

If Couturier plays as well as staal defensively and puts in 25-35-60 you would be dissapointed? Yikes.

hockeyfreak7 07-10-2011 01:57 PM

Mike Richards only hit 31-31 and 23-43 the last two years...

So if Couturier was playing Staal quality defense with about 25-35, it would be pretty comparable to Richards...not sure that's "disappointing".

Jester 07-10-2011 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 34879681)
Versteeg had three 20-goal seasons in a row.

I'm glad 20-goal seasons mean something significant, I mean if people were so ready to throw him to the wolves and all...

Just to put things into perspective for you, but do you seriously believe Jordan Staal is going to be a significantly stronger offensive player than he is now?

Yes, I consider a 20-goal scoring Couturier to be a disappointment. I want 30-40-70+ from him, not 25-35-60.

Also, disappointment doesn't actually hinge on prediction. It's based on hope, not expectation. Just pointing out that there is actually a difference between hope and expectation.

108 guys had 20 goals last year, Chris. Getting 20 goals in the NHL is significant. That's a top 6 forward no problem.

All of this while ignoring the defense that Staal brings to the table. Unrealistic hopes and ludicrous labels for disappointment are just that, unrealistic and ludicrous.

Jester 07-10-2011 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrHamburg (Post 34879911)
If Couturier plays as well as staal defensively and puts in 25-35-60 you would be dissapointed? Yikes.

Yeah, it's absurd.

JVR21 07-10-2011 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 34880115)
108 guys had 20 goals last year, Chris. Getting 20 goals in the NHL is significant. That's a top 6 forward no problem.

All of this while ignoring the defense that Staal brings to the table. Unrealistic hopes and ludicrous labels for disappointment are just that, unrealistic and ludicrous.

He's talking about in his prime. I hope.

JDinkalage Morgoone 07-10-2011 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVR21 (Post 34880297)
He's talking about in his prime. I hope.

That's what I was thinking. If Couturier does that by the time he's 23... dang.

CS 07-10-2011 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVR21 (Post 34880297)
He's talking about in his prime. I hope.

I am. I don't see Staal in his prime as much more than a 20-25 goal scorer with elite defensive play. Couturier has much higher offensive potential.

Jester is overreacting as he does. I've learned just to ignore it. He could make a duck crossing the street sound like the freaking apocalypse.

BobbyClarkeFan16 07-10-2011 02:26 PM

The problem is that Couturier is being compared to the wrong Staal. It's not Jordan that they should be comparing him to, it's Eric. Jordan was never an elite offensive player and the numbers prove Jordan was never elite - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=80489. Now, compare Couturier to Eric and Eric's numbers - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=55283 - and there's a better comparison. They also play a very similar game.

Gotta agree with Shafer on this one. If Couturier only puts up 20 - 25 goals and 60 points, then it's a major disappointment, even if he plays world class caliber defense. He can do so much more than just 60 points and defensive play.

CS 07-10-2011 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 (Post 34880963)
The problem is that Couturier is being compared to the wrong Staal.

Thank you! Glad someone else sees this.

Jester 07-10-2011 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hextall89 (Post 34880495)
That's what I was thinking. If Couturier does that by the time he's 23... dang.

Even in his prime, that's a very good player. The vast majority of players in the NHL won't touch this totals, let alone touch them with consistency.

Shafer just claimed that Couterier bar is above Brind'amour. Ya know, a guy with 1184 points in the NHL.

He may do that, but his analysis is ridiculous.

hXc Chris 07-10-2011 02:32 PM

If he turns into Jordan Staal id be very disappointed. Staal does not impress me. If Thornton is the ceiling and Staal is the basement i'll take it...but if J.Staal is the ceiling...FML!

Jester 07-10-2011 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Shafer (Post 34880997)
Thank you! Glad someone else sees this.

The only person on this board that is more ridiculously over the top with optimism than you when it comes to young players.

The issue is not whether Couterier has the potential to score more than Jordan Staal, but your characterization that such production would be disappointing. Which is a display of considerable ignorance with regard to what players actually produce in the NHL.

If Couterier turns into Jordan Staal, then we got an extremely good player.

Jester 07-10-2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hXc Chris (Post 34881141)
If he turns into Jordan Staal id be very disappointed. Staal does not impress me. If Thornton is the ceiling and Staal is the basement i'll take it...but if J.Staal is the ceiling...FML!

The basement is complete bust. It never ceases to amaze how 18 y.o kids are such sure things.

CS 07-10-2011 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 34881107)
Even in his prime, that's a very good player. The vast majority of players in the NHL won't touch this totals, let alone touch them with consistency.

Shafer just claimed that Couterier bar is above Brind'amour. Ya know, a guy with 1184 points in the NHL.

He may do that, but his analysis is ridiculous.

I never claimed any bar was above Brind'Amour. I said he has more offensive POTENTIAL. Do you know what the hell POTENTIAL is or are you trolling?

Brind'Amour's point totals are nice and all, but do you consider him a world class offensive player?

He was certainly a top line offensive threat for years, but it was his longevity that got him 1184 points.

Couturier has more potential than Brindy offensively. I don't necessarily think he'll ever reach that though. It'd be pretty hard.

Frankly, Brindy, Richards, E. Staal...that's the kind of offensive output I'm expecting if everything goes right.

Once again though, you're overreacting; ever the dramatist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 34881211)
The only person on this board that is more ridiculously over the top with optimism than you when it comes to young players.

The issue is not whether Couterier has the potential to score more than Jordan Staal, but your characterization that such production would be disappointing. Which is a display of considerable ignorance with regard to what players actually produce in the NHL.

If Couterier turns into Jordan Staal, then we got an extremely good player.

Oh look, it's the "Shafer is a homer" comment.

I'm glad even you can get original too.

You can't be disappointed by a player turning into Jordan Staal? "I'm so disappointed our potential M. Richards with more offensive potential turned into J. Staal."

:facepalm:

If that happens, watch me. I'll be so excited that we got Jordan Staal out of that.

Jester 07-10-2011 02:40 PM

Very little drama here, Chris. Long since wrote off your predictions as unrivaled homerism, it's just important that you don't send the fan base off the stupid optimism cliff. If Couterier registers 25-35-60 as normal production throughout his career, then that's a winning pick. Draft is littered with top prospects that fell far short of that bar.

BTW, it's quite unlikely that Couturier will ever register a 97 point season... Let alone multiple 80 point seasons. Not to mention pairing that with a beastly two-way game. If he does, then the pick is a HR.


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