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-   -   Concussion Helmet suggestions (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=949129)

Kevin Danko 07-12-2011 12:48 PM

Concussion Helmet suggestions
 
I've had concussions, I play men's league and its non check but some guys love to check anyway...i've taken a few head shots lately which has led me to the decision to get a new helmet.

Im looking for a new helmet that will help prevent concussions, from initial research I know that Cascade makes the m11 and that easton has a z-shock helmet...

anyone have any suggestions?

AIREAYE 07-12-2011 12:55 PM

No helmet will ever prevent concussions. I'm going to be completely honest and say that if you've had 7 concussions, maybe it's time to really consult with yourself, your family and your doctor about your next steps.

needzmoarcleary 07-12-2011 01:09 PM

The reason I had to quit playing hockey was b/c of concussions. I had 8 before I was practically forced to quit, had scholarships lined up for 2 colleges (glad I did quit b/c I'm still alive to chime in here lol). With that being said every season I went out and bought the new top of the line helmet that was said to reduce concussions, didn't do a single thing to help to be honest. If your prone to concussions like myself there isn't a helmet in the world that will save you from getting another one. My doctor told me to go at least a year without another concussion and then he said I could THINK about playing again. His recommendation was to take up golf. I still do drop in here and there. Basically if I were you I'd be fairly worried another severe concussion could have life changing results. If your going to take the risk, keep your head up.

EazyB97 07-12-2011 01:14 PM

All of the top of the line helmets should provide a similar level of protection, which won't be enough to prevent all concussions. If you're set on playing, try them all on, see what fits best and buy a good mouth guard as well.

AIREAYE 07-12-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EazyB97 (Post 34944265)
All of the top of the line helmets should provide a similar level of protection, which won't be enough to prevent all concussions. If you're set on playing, try them all on, see what fits best and buy a good mouth guard as well.

That's the problem, he shouldn't be playing. This is beyond a helmet issue

Jarick 07-12-2011 01:30 PM

At 7 concussions that's about time to find a different sport IMO, tough as it is to say. No helmet will reduce or prevent concussions, especially with that many in your history.

Gunnar Stahl 30 07-12-2011 01:42 PM

well since noone has given any suggestions yet i will

the S19. The M11 was the first one piece helmet but the S19 is the second and is better than the M11.

2 piece helmets allow for easy adjustment front and back but developers discovered that they bend at the seems where they meet when a players head is impacted.

one piece helmets help solve that problem.

The M11 is heavy complicated falls apart and ugly. the s19 is the lightest helmet ive ever felt, the padding isnt too bulky and isnt bad looking. Both do adjust still but its in the back and is like one of those old hats from the 90s that has two bands and a hole and dots you snap in to tighten for the s19. the M11 has a clasp like system which is kind of complicated if you dont know how to use it.

but the selling point for saftey is a picture in usa hockey magazine that had a weight on the s19 and the same weight on the m11 but the s19 was still rigid and the m11 was crushed from side to side. i cant seem to find the picture though so if anyone can please post

AIREAYE 07-12-2011 01:51 PM

^ you don't get it do you ?

Jarick 07-12-2011 01:52 PM

On the flip side, the S19 doesn't come close to fitting my head shape or many other people's heads. The M11 is more forgiving in terms of fit because of its clasp.

I'll also say I've had my M11 for a year, I have several teammates with M11's, and nobody has had any issues with them. I've never heard of them "falling apart".

But I am thinking of trying a different helmet since the M11 fits loose at the tightest setting.

Gunnar Stahl 30 07-12-2011 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIREAYE (Post 34945823)
^ you don't get it do you ?

no??

AIREAYE 07-12-2011 02:03 PM

It's not about whichever helmet has the most features or the most marketing attached to it; it's about whichever one fits the best. And for the OP it's about his own safety and future.

I hope someone else like dastyukiandeke or a medical professional can chime in here about concussions.

Kevin Danko 07-12-2011 02:13 PM

Aireaye: Thanks for the concern and discussion on the topic. I appreciate it. My brother is a doctor and he has given me the same info.

My question about the s19 is, with it being so light does that take away at all from the protection factor?

At first glance the m11 is the more marketed of the two, i see info packets about it at the local pro shop.

needzmoarcleary 07-12-2011 04:00 PM

From what I was told by my doctor and I have done my research on is that when you get a concussion it happens when the brain hits against the inside of your head. There is a fluid like substance inside your head that sort of like prevents that from happening. Now the more concussions you get I've heard deteriorate or you loose that fluid (don't know the validity of that). But basically if you are prone to concussions you could wear the biggest most padded helmet you want and it wont change the fact that you are still susceptible to getting another. So you could wear a Jofa helmet from the 80's or a helmet from today and the basic facts are that if you are easily getting concussions the helmet isn't the deciding factor, either don't play or you better keep your head up and make sure you stay on your feet.

needzmoarcleary 07-12-2011 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AIREAYE (Post 34946311)
I hope someone else like dastyukiandeke or a medical professional can chime in here about concussions.

I will tell you from my experience of having really bad concussions to minor one's it is scary how big of a difference there is in severity. I've had minor/ mild one's where I was throwing up and had terrible migraine headaches. The last Concussion I received I was in the hospital for two weeks with amnesia. I had no idea who I was or anyone around me. My parents said that was the hardest two weeks of their lives. My symptoms came and went but at times I was having migraine's every single day and obscured vision at times for a few years. It has been about 5 years since my last concussion and I still run into the symptoms periodically and its usually when I'm engaging in physical activities like working out, drop in hockey and stuff like that. I can tell you that I don't remember very much from my Junior year of high school back. I had all my concussions from when I was in 6th grade till my junior year of high school. That is just my personal experience as I know everyone is different and these things effect people differently. Take it for what its worth and be safe.

Fly Like a C5 07-12-2011 04:17 PM

Helmets protect against impact type injuries. It's there to keep your skull from being fractured not to prevent concussions. Helmets can help reduce the number and severity of concussions from impact forces (blows directly to the head) but it cannot eliminate or totally prevent them. In addition, concussions can occur even when there is no direct blow to the head (when the chest hits something and the head snaps forward). Concussion that occur due to impulsive or acceleration forces cannot be prevented by helmets.

Bottom line is that any modern and properly fitted helmet will give you some protection. However, that protection is limited and does not extend to concussions caused by impulsive/acceleration forces. If you decide to continue playing (after consulting with your doctor) you might want to consider a new league in addition to a new helmet.

ponder 07-12-2011 04:55 PM

Like others have stated, if I were you I'd definitely be thinking long and hard about whether or not you should continue to play hockey, period. 7 concussions is a lot, you should definitely have a good talk with a doctor who has a lot of experience with head injuries - you've talked to your brother who's a doctor, but what kind of doctor is he? If he's a dermatologist, cardiologist, etc. then his concussion knowledge could be fairly limited. Even among specialists in the field (like neurologists) concussions seem to be somewhat poorly understood.

If you are absolutely, 100% set on continuing to play, I'd personally just go for whatever high end, seemingly protective helmet fits best. As others have stated all helmets offer only minimal protection against concussions, their main goal is to stop your skull from cracking when it hits the ice, but something is better than nothing. The Cascade M11 seems to get the most hype protection-wise, but so few scientific studies have been done comparing different helmets that nobody knows for sure, most of the "information" out there is just marketing. Get whatever fits best.

Also, sounds like you've been playing beer league, which as you say has a decent amount of contact despite being supposedly non contact. Way less than contact hockey, but still enough to cause problems if you have a serious concussion history. Have you considered switching to a relaxed/chill pickup league instead? The pickup hockey I've played has generally been a lot less intense/competitive, with a lot less contact, could be a good option.

cptjeff 07-12-2011 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindank (Post 34946697)
My question about the s19 is, with it being so light does that take away at all from the protection factor?

No. It's designed and built in an entirely different way than any other hockey helmet on the market. The lightness is one benefit of that, as is increased protection. It's basically built more like a bike helmet, drawing on Bell's experience (same company, Easton-Bell Sports) in that regard. But the foam is still a variant on EPP, so you don't have to replace the helmet after a big hit like you would with a bike helmet.

The downside is fit, or rather lack thereof. It's not going to fit nearly as many people as more traditional designs do.


To the OP: have a serious chat with your doctor before continuing to play. If you do decide to play, Bauer, Easton, and Cascade (M11) are the ones I would look at. Reebok's 11k looks great, but isn't out yet. the 8k is solid, but it predates the helmet arms race that Bauer, Easton and Cascade have had recently. CCM hasn't done much on the helmet front for a while.

Personally I use a Bauer 9500 (now the 9900 with a few tweaks, including the way it fits), and like that well enough.

Kevin Danko 07-12-2011 06:09 PM

So basically the top three helmets out there are the Easton S19 Z, The Bauer 9900, and The Cascade M11?

I've heard that the Easton is the lightest, however it either fits or it doesn't.
I've heard the m11 is kind of clunky and overmarketed...
and I really havent heard much about the bauer 9900

AIREAYE 07-12-2011 06:22 PM

You should head to a local hockey shop and try them all on, and even others as well. The best is going to be the one that fits the best.

Who knows, if the only helmet that can fit your head properly is the 4500, then that's the one you go with

rinkrat22 07-12-2011 07:01 PM

Just to help explain a few things in regards to traumatic injury. ( I am a firefighter/ paramedic).

In a crash (vehicle) there are 3 impacts that we are concerned with:
The vehicles impacting each other. (the body check)
The body hitting the inside of the vehicle (think contact with glass/boards or landing on the ice)
The impact of the internal organs against the skeletal structure of the body (the brain against the skull). this is what we as hockey players are concerned with, since you are playing no check.

what the m11 and other helmets try to accomplish is to decelerate the speed of impact to nothing so your brain doesn't bounce around in your skull (think seatbelts and airbags). one of the reasons the NHL is getting rid of seamless glass is there is no give and therefore no deceleration. the Stanchions may suck for the fans, and for bad bouces but it is safer.

when your organs come to an abrupt stop damage occurs whether its a broken bone, damage to internal organs or your brain. different parts of your brain control different things so depending on where the injury is you may have different symptoms from concussion to concussion and from patient to patient.

Now I am not going to suggest you get one helmet over another, they only can do so much. I'm not going to suggest you keep or quit playing, I'm old, married with children with a very good and well paying job. If I was in your shoes I know what decision I'd make, but I'm not. At the very least maybe get a group of buddies and just start renting the ice once a week. You'd be suprised how much fan it can be with the "right" group of guys and no one wanting to take your head off.

I hope I didn't forget anything. Good Luck

Kevin Danko 07-12-2011 07:04 PM

While i appreciate all the sentiments about health and should i continue playing...the point of this thread was based on equipment. I know the risks and consequences.

I would really like to keep this discussion more towards the technology/equipment.

Fly Like a C5 07-13-2011 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindank (Post 34957351)
I would really like to keep this discussion more towards the technology/equipment.

Until you are able to try some of these helmets there isn't much more helpful advice that can be given. Go to a LHS and try on every model of helmet they have and make a list on the ones that actually fit your head. At that point we can have an effective discussion. Not much point in talking about the newest Easton helmet if it doesn't even fit your head.

Kevin Danko 07-13-2011 07:23 AM

I ended up going with the Cascade M11. I tried on the S19, however just felt that the Cascade was an all around better solution.

Jarick 07-13-2011 02:14 PM

I personally went with the M11 because I found the cushioning to be the softest, and in my mind I wanted that to cushion blows to the head a little more. All the EPP foams seem really hard to me, which kind of goes counter to want I want in a helmet. I want it to disperse the energy of impact and have some give so the force isn't all transferred directly to my skull. The M11 seems to have the most cushion of the helmets that fit.

I still would really like to give a VN helmet like the Easton S9 or Bauer 5100 a shot, but neither really fit all that well.

Pez68 07-13-2011 02:38 PM

How are you getting these concussions? From falling and hitting the ice? From getting hit in the face/head? That sounds like a lot of concussions to be getting playing no-check hockey...


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