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-   -   Are they joking? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=954413)

msv957 07-20-2011 09:42 AM

Are they joking?
 
Not sure I understand this ranking at all. Not many if any team have a better prospect pool than the Rangers.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Brian...ench/153/37166

Levitate 07-20-2011 09:45 AM

Without them saying why they ranked each team where they did and how they decided on the rankings, it's pretty worthless. Just saying "oh a bunch of teams were pretty close so this is opinion" makes it pointless to even put up a ranking

I would also guess they're leaning heavily on high draft picks in that ranking

SingnBluesOnBroadway 07-20-2011 09:53 AM

They do define their criteria:

"For the rankings, we took into account not only the high-end future stars, but also the depth at each position, and overall team depth."

Don't agree with where the Rangers are ranked, but they do lack high-end future stars. They do lack depth at certain positions.

There's also an addendum:

"EDIT: Someone asked me about the Rangers, specifically, who do have a very good system. As I noted-- the teams from 10-20 are extremely close, and their rankings were more based on personal opinion than anything else."

Levitate 07-20-2011 10:02 AM

No, that's not really enough. They don't say how much weight is given to each of those things, and since they don't say anything about any of the teams, we have no clue how they took all that into consideration or even if they're knowledgeable enough about all of the teams and their prospect pools to be making such a list.

Even if they do have a very well thought out and documented system for ranking the teams it's completely useless without more information here

PizzaSteak 07-20-2011 10:35 AM

Florida is that low? Their system is one of the deepest in the league.

SingnBluesOnBroadway 07-20-2011 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate (Post 35203921)
No, that's not really enough. They don't say how much weight is given to each of those things, and since they don't say anything about any of the teams, we have no clue how they took all that into consideration or even if they're knowledgeable enough about all of the teams and their prospect pools to be making such a list.

Even if they do have a very well thought out and documented system for ranking the teams it's completely useless without more information here

Fair enough. They basically said their rankings are based around the criteria and are personal opinion.

Florida Ranger 07-20-2011 11:13 AM

It seems like they put a list together. Some half-ass work. I would enjoy some explanations for each team.

chosen 07-20-2011 11:18 AM

If the Rangers were ranked higher, guessing there would be less trashing of the results. Just a guess, mind you.

Why does anyone care? Is it the we have been dissed mentality?

Kane One 07-20-2011 11:23 AM

Who cares? Hockey's Future (who's main purpose is to rank prospects) ranked us 7th.

Ian 07-20-2011 11:24 AM

99.999% of the stuff posted on Hockeybuzz is pure opinion, who cares what some random dude thinks?

OldStanley 07-20-2011 11:29 AM

How dare they rate the Rangers average farm system as slightly below average.:cry:

I shall never click on another link by Hockeybuzz :rolleyes:

nyr2k2 07-20-2011 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldStanley (Post 35206685)
How dare they rate the Rangers average farm system as slightly below average.:cry:

I shall never click on another link by Hockeybuzz :rolleyes:

I can understand not caring about Hockeybuzz rankings, but I'd definitely dispute the characterization of our system as average.

bscharf 07-20-2011 11:40 AM

and where would you have us ?

Too many fans overrate our prospects simply because they are our prospects

nyr2k2 07-20-2011 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bscharf (Post 35207101)
and where would you have us ?

Too many fans overrate our prospects simply because they are our prospects

Me? Probably about 10th.

HF ranked us seventh, so it's not as if people are off-base in thinking we have an above-average group of prospects. I thought that was pretty universally accepted.

Chalfdiggity3 07-20-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bscharf (Post 35207101)
and where would you have us ?

Too many fans overrate our prospects simply because they are our prospects

easily in the top 10, from 7-10. Some people overrate our prospects yes, but in a stricly objective view, we have a top 10 prospect pool. We have ALOT of good defensive prospects, some serious depth on forward position with Boom/Bust potential. What we are missing is a top tier blue chip prospect and a solid goalie prospect. If we had that we would be in the top 5.

Provolone* 07-20-2011 11:57 AM

Our #1 prospect was the 19th overall pick that hasn't done much (granted w/ what leeway he's granted) in college, though excelled in international competition. Hate to say it, but we're not top 10, though i think we are top 15.

As for HF ranking the Rangers 7th, they had this as our top 5:

Top 5 Prospects:
1. Chris Kreider, LW
2. Ryan McDonagh, D-Graduated
3. Christian Thomas, RW-
4. Evgeny Grachev, C-Gone
5. Mats Zuccarello, LW-Graduated

So replace those 3 with Erixon, McIlrath & either MDZ or Hagelin. Do people really think it's difficult to come up with 10 or more teams with a better prospect pool?

bscharf 07-20-2011 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 (Post 35207301)
easily in the top 10, from 7-10. Some people overrate our prospects yes, but in a stricly objective view, we have a top 10 prospect pool. We have ALOT of good defensive prospects, some serious depth on forward position with Boom/Bust potential. What we are missing is a top tier blue chip prospect and a solid goalie prospect. If we had that we would be in the top 5.

Thats a BIG if. We dont have any blue chip prospects which is why I dont think we have a top ten farm. Most of our "prospects" are already on the rangers. If were counting only guys in the system than idk, maybe im being too harsh on our youth.

gotmonte 07-20-2011 12:11 PM

Sad? Yes. Untrue? Unsure.

I am not enamored with our prospects. Our D? Yeah I think we are STACKED there but we are stacked with mostly players ALREADY PLAYING FOR THE BIG CLUB except for players like MDZ

It is what it is. Without the advantages of picking top 5 for years on end, we will never EVER be top ten in MY eyes.

The thing is we get GOOD kids are pick numbers that dont usually reveal good players (second/third/fourth rounds) so I dont think our SCOUTING STAFF stinks. Its the actual POSITION IN THE DRAFT THAT WE LACK.

If we could pick top 5 for two or three years and top 8 for two to three years like some of these other scrub clubs, we would be top 5 in prospects. But that doesnt happen for us and we have to deal with it.

Being a Rangers fan, you have to have Thick skin. Half the league hates us, the other half is envious of us and gives us guff because of it. So debates/rankings like this you have to just look the other way and keep telling yourselves, "But I am a fan of one of the best franchises in the WORLD! THE NEW YORK RANGERS!" (doesnt matter if its true or not, we believe the NYR are the best franchise in the world!

MSG the place to be* 07-20-2011 12:28 PM

Who cares. The two most hyped prospects are Brayden Schenn and Nazem Kadri. Tells you all you need to know about the state of prospects.

OldStanley 07-20-2011 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emma Royd (Post 35207187)
Me? Probably about 10th.

HF ranked us seventh, so it's not as if people are off-base in thinking we have an above-average group of prospects. I thought that was pretty universally accepted.

It's just an opinion, I'll be the first to admit I am not an expert in the field of evaluating future NHL talent based on youtube videos and what I read about them. I just have a feeling that from the prospect pool, the ones that have not touched NHL ice yet for any prolonged period of time, many other teams are fielding a comparable amount of talent from their pools.

Barbara Underhill 07-20-2011 12:37 PM

HockeyBuzz, nuff said.

Chalfdiggity3 07-20-2011 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Provolone (Post 35207749)
Our #1 prospect was the 19th overall pick that hasn't done much (granted w/ what leeway he's granted) in college, though excelled in international competition. Hate to say it, but we're not top 10, though i think we are top 15.

As for HF ranking the Rangers 7th, they had this as our top 5:

Top 5 Prospects:
1. Chris Kreider, LW
2. Ryan McDonagh, D-Graduated
3. Christian Thomas, RW-
4. Evgeny Grachev, C-Gone
5. Mats Zuccarello, LW-Graduated

So replace those 3 with Erixon, McIlrath & either MDZ or Hagelin. Do people really think it's difficult to come up with 10 or more teams with a better prospect pool?

If your talking trash about Kreider than you obviously have never watched him and dont know a thing about him. He has the ability and potential to become a 65-70pt winger in the nhl. Thomas has OUTSTANDING offensive abilities and has put on muscle and grew some since he was drafted. Erixon has the ability and potential to be like Staal. Mcdonagh i see turning into a letang like player, McIlrath if he progresses well will be a great top 4 defender in the league.. MDZ has the ability to be a great offensive dman. We just drafted Miller, and we have alot of boom/bust players like McClogan, St. Croix, Yogan, and so on. Not sure how u can say we dont have a good prospect pool.. Yes we dont have a blue chip prospect but we have players that can BOOM to be blue chip prospects.. We just signed JAM who could be a HUGE steal..

All of this, plus we lost McDonagh, Sauer, Stepan, and Zucca last year. but only time will tell what happens

Provolone* 07-20-2011 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 (Post 35209415)
If your talking trash about Kreider than you obviously have never watched him and dont know a thing about him. He has the ability and potential to become a 65-70pt winger in the nhl. Thomas has OUTSTANDING offensive abilities and has put on muscle and grew some since he was drafted. Erixon has the ability and potential to be like Staal. Mcdonagh i see turning into a letang like player, McIlrath if he progresses well will be a great top 4 defender in the league.. MDZ has the ability to be a great offensive dman. We just drafted Miller, and we have alot of boom/bust players like McClogan, St. Croix, Yogan, and so on. Not sure how u can say we dont have a good prospect pool.. Yes we dont have a blue chip prospect but we have players that can BOOM to be blue chip prospects.. We just signed JAM who could be a HUGE steal..

All of this, plus we lost McDonagh, Sauer, Stepan, and Zucca last year. but only time will tell what happens

I'm not talking smack about Kreider, just said he didn't tear it up in college. His performance in international play is what has me psyched about him and i agree he has 65+pt potential. But for the sake of ranking team prospect pools, im sure you can say that about a lot of top prospects in each respective organization.

I really wouldn't bet that McD turns out like Letang. Though it did take a few years for Letang to break out like the allstar he is, so i hope you're right about McD turning into him.


I'm not big on this "we got a lot of boom/bust players" i've been seeing posted on these boards recently. It makes it sound like it's a 50/50 proposition, when in reality it's a 95% bust::5% boom ratio.

I do think we're slightly above average compared to other teams, which IMO, is overachieving considering where we draft, so kudos to the staff and recent change of culture.

Darrelle Lundqvist 07-20-2011 01:13 PM

Whatever. I don't care what some guys opinion is lol.

Inferno 07-20-2011 02:01 PM

ive always thought we were in the 12-15th range myself.


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