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-   -   Speculation: Liar, Liar, Pants on fire! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=962285)

Top 6 Spaling 08-02-2011 12:52 PM

Liar, Liar, Pants on fire!
 
Someone has been lying here. Weber said he wanted to be here. Poile said he'd give Weber his money. The owners said they would give Poile the money to spend this offseason. If everyone's telling the truth, Webs is under contract. Take your guess on who done it!

smitty10 08-02-2011 12:58 PM

Obviously Weber just wants to play in Toronto :)

Jk, but I think it's Weber. I think he wants to play for a contender and may not feel that Nashville has what it takes to go all the way. I can see him taking a 1 year deal.

triggrman 08-02-2011 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty10 (Post 35600045)
Obviously Weber just wants to play in Toronto :)

Jk, but I think it's Weber. I think he wants to play for a contender and may not feel that Nashville has what it takes to go all the way. I can see him taking a 1 year deal.

He's here for 2 years, he's not a ufa next summer either.

TootooTrain 08-02-2011 01:02 PM

I think it's a combination of everyone resulting in no progress what so ever. Money that was promised, hasn't arrived, causing Poile to lowball, resulting in Weber having second thoughts about his tenure here. One big train wreck.

TMI 08-02-2011 01:04 PM

Well supposedly he asked for a one year deal, so he will have to take it unless a deal is hammered out before the ruling.

No one has to have lied. The ownership could have been completely truthful when they said they knew what he wanted, and were prepared to give it to him. Weber could have been completely honest when he said he wants to stay in Nashville, but simply could have left out the caveat "provided the team takes the next step forward" because it doesn't play well in the media. Poile could have been given the green light to pay Weber what he wants, but is hung up because offering him a one year deal makes us do this all over again, offering a two year deal gives us Weber until he's a UFA, offering a three year deal means we only have one one year into his free agency, etc etc. A GM will always look to lock a player of Weber's caliber up for a long term deal. It's easier than negotiating a second contract down the road.

So if the ownership has the money, Poile was given the go-ahead, and Weber wants to play here if it's a contender, the one issue holding them back that makes the most sense is the issue of years. Poile and ownership want long term. Weber wants short term. Maybe he wants Poile to improve the team. Maybe he wants to see what the new CBA has to offer.

Top 6 Spaling 08-02-2011 01:06 PM

I think its hilarious that earlier today it was all FIRE POILE HE SUCKS SO MUCH and he doesnt have a single vote.....interesting.

Soundgarden 08-02-2011 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty10 (Post 35600045)
Obviously Weber just wants to play in Toronto :)

Jk, but I think it's Weber. I think he wants to play for a contender and may not feel that Nashville has what it takes to go all the way. I can see him taking a 1 year deal.

A 1 year deal would probably benefit the Preds more, he'd be a RFA for another year.

triggrman 08-02-2011 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopreds9 (Post 35600329)
I think its hilarious that earlier today it was all FIRE POILE HE SUCKS SO MUCH and he doesnt have a single vote.....interesting.

Most aren't voting in the poll. But there, I voted for Poile. The track record of cheapness is there.

29dryden29 08-02-2011 02:20 PM

I voted ownership because ulitmatly they hold the purse strings.

Viqsi 08-02-2011 02:45 PM

I voted "stuck for another reason", because there was no "all of the above" option. We can't just blame any one individual.

Blame Poile! Blame Cigarran and friends! Blame Weber! Blame Suter! Blame the whole team! Blame the arbitrator! Blame Titan Sports Management! Blame the Tennessean! Blame the Sports Authority! Blame "Boots"! Blame Leopold! Blame Balsillie! Blame Bettman! Blame Doug MacLean! (whoops, wrong team) Blame Atlanta Spirit! Blame the NHLPA! Blame Canada! Blame Gnash! Blame HFBoards! Blame... EVERYBODY!

Top 6 Spaling 08-02-2011 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viqsi (Post 35603527)
I voted "stuck for another reason", because there was no "all of the above" option. We can't just blame any one individual.

Blame Poile! Blame Cigarran and friends! Blame Weber! Blame Suter! Blame the whole team! Blame the arbitrator! Blame Titan Sports Management! Blame the Tennessean! Blame the Sports Authority! Blame Leopold! Blame Balsillie! Blame Bettman! Blame Doug MacLean! (whoops, wrong team) Blame Atlanta Spirit! Blame the NHLPA! Blame Canada! Blame Gnash! Blame HFBoards! Blame... EVERYBODY!

You forgot Scott Stevens, Tom Cruise, and Zeus. :sarcasm:

Viqsi 08-02-2011 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopreds9 (Post 35603577)
You forgot Scott Stevens, Tom Cruise, and Zeus. :sarcasm:

I'll do better next time. :nod: ;)

(Seriously, this is such a freaky role reversal thing for me this offseason. Normally I come here for the calm and then go back to the CBJ board for the crazy. ;) )

PredsV82 08-02-2011 02:56 PM

to me it seems obvious that Weber is asking for something that Poile cant give.

whether its because what Weber is asking for is unreasonable or because ownership has prevented Poile from accomodating Weber, I think its just dumb to think that Poile himself is a cheapskate. After all, its not his money, and signing weber even at an inflated price would still be good for poile unless ownership specifically told him he cant spend over a certain amount....

JohniusMaximus 08-02-2011 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viqsi (Post 35603527)
I voted "stuck for another reason", because there was no "all of the above" option. We can't just blame any one individual.

Blame Poile! Blame Cigarran and friends! Blame Weber! Blame Suter! Blame the whole team! Blame the arbitrator! Blame Titan Sports Management! Blame the Tennessean! Blame the Sports Authority! Blame "Boots"! Blame Leopold! Blame Balsillie! Blame Bettman! Blame Doug MacLean! (whoops, wrong team) Blame Atlanta Spirit! Blame the NHLPA! Blame Canada! Blame Gnash! Blame HFBoards! Blame... EVERYBODY!

AND HUGH JACKMAN!!!

triggrman 08-02-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 35603885)
to me it seems obvious that Weber is asking for something that Poile cant give.

whether its because what Weber is asking for is unreasonable or because ownership has prevented Poile from accomodating Weber, I think its just dumb to think that Poile himself is a cheapskate. After all, its not his money, and signing weber even at an inflated price would still be good for poile unless ownership specifically told him he cant spend over a certain amount....

I'd bet he get's a budget he has to work order but I don't think they dictate who he can sign for what.

handtrick 08-02-2011 03:09 PM

I don't think anybody necessarily lied, I just think that Poile has not done enough tangible things to make this team a Stanley Cup contender on the offensive side of the puck for Shea to commit to Poile's passive vision for the long term given the contraints of the small market budget.

TMI 08-02-2011 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohniusMaximus (Post 35604039)
AND HUGH JACKMAN!!!

Be careful. Hugh Jackman kicks his own kids

http://cdn.wwtdd.com/wp-content/uplo...pez_france.jpg

I Will Son 08-02-2011 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick (Post 35604263)
I don't think anybody necessarily lied, I just think that Poile has not done enough tangible things to make this team a Stanley Cup contender on the offensive side of the puck for Shea to commit to Poile's passive vision for the long term given the contraints of the small market budget.

Thats how I see it. But im still hearing that Poile offered 4.7 mil. (Darren Pang)

Top 6 Spaling 08-02-2011 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Will Son (Post 35604331)
Thats how I see it. But im still hearing that Poile offered 4.7 mil. (Darren Pang)

I think thats what he submitted to the arbitrator, not what he actually offered.

I Will Son 08-02-2011 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopreds9 (Post 35604381)
I think thats what he submitted to the arbitrator, not what he actually offered.

oh, ok. So he did that so the arbiter could work in the middle of what he said and Shea said?

PredsV82 08-02-2011 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handtrick (Post 35604263)
I don't think anybody necessarily lied, I just think that Poile has not done enough tangible things to make this team a Stanley Cup contender on the offensive side of the puck for Shea to commit to Poile's passive vision for the long term given the contraints of the small market budget.

this is probably the most likely scenario, and a one year deal is basically Shea saying "prove it".


If this is in fact true and poile knows he isnt getting more than one year no matter what, then I think going to arbitratrion in hopes of saving some money is not wrong. I think as long as poile is respectful and more or less just points out the comparable salaries around the league, there wont be any "poisoned well"

what is unfortunate is the fact that the comments made prior to last season created unrealistic expectations from the fanbase

TMI 08-02-2011 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Will Son (Post 35604475)
oh, ok. So he did that so the arbiter could work in the middle of what he said and Shea said?

Essentially what happens is the team gives an offer (low) and the player gives a request (high). The arbiter doesn't have to meet in the middle, but the theory is that he or she will. The $4.7m offer given to the arbiter likely isn't the same offer given to Weber for any contract offered. In fact, with the amount of money we need to spend to reach the floor an offer for $4.7m would be silly on so many levels that I find it hard to believe it was ever a serious amount.

I Will Son 08-02-2011 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdManIn (Post 35605065)
Essentially what happens is the team gives an offer (low) and the player gives a request (high). The arbiter doesn't have to meet in the middle, but the theory is that he or she will. The $4.7m offer given to the arbiter likely isn't the same offer given to Weber for any contract offered. In fact, with the amount of money we need to spend to reach the floor an offer for $4.7m would be silly on so many levels that I find it hard to believe it was ever a serious amount.

Okay well this makes a lot more sense. I was thinking that was the actual offer, would of one of the weirder things Poile has done. Thx for the info

lstcyr 08-02-2011 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdManIn (Post 35605065)
Essentially what happens is the team gives an offer (low) and the player gives a request (high). The arbiter doesn't have to meet in the middle, but the theory is that he or she will. The $4.7m offer given to the arbiter likely isn't the same offer given to Weber for any contract offered. In fact, with the amount of money we need to spend to reach the floor an offer for $4.7m would be silly on so many levels that I find it hard to believe it was ever a serious amount.

I'm assuming that the team then had to try to justify why Weber's worth only $4.7 million? Sounds like a bad idea to me. Why try to piss off the player by trying to justify a number that no one in their right mind would think is reasonable? Unless the comps that can be used would suggest this is around the right number. (Remember there are some contracts that can't be used as comparisons.)

TMI 08-02-2011 03:54 PM

Just like Weber's camp would have to prove he is worth $8m. It isn't likely to piss Poile off, but each side should understand that it's business. I really don't think Weber has thin enough skin to think "man, that Poile sure is an ******* for doing his job." Besides, I don't think it's as much about trying to defend your lowball figure as it is trying to not pay the high figure.

The choices are essentially to low ball it, or to try to be more fair so you don't step on anyone's toes but end up having to pay more. If the number we laid out was $5.5m it would still be a bit insulting considering how good Weber is. The middle ground all of the sudden becomes somewhere in the $6.75-$7.25 range rather than it being in the $6.25-$6.75 range. If Weber is getting his feelings hurt either way why not try for the smaller contract?

As Smokey mentioned earlier, one can assume the long, drawn out negotiations process is more likely to sour the two sides than the hearing is. Poile and his crew have already been trying to plead their case, just as Weber, I'm sure, has hinted that he isn't convinced Poile can build a winner.


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