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-   -   Torts and numbered lines (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=968525)

Callagraves 08-14-2011 03:00 PM

Torts and numbered lines
 
With the daily poll of what player ends on what line, and labeling lines as 1st through 4th, I believe myself to be of the few holding the opinion that Torts doesn't actually use a first line second or a third line the way other teams might conventionally do. Consider the BAR line from last year receiving first line minutes, and the boyle prust feds line playing 2nd line minutes, combined with the now (in)famous line switching, and you have to wonder if this team is going to have traditional tiered lines, or if we're going to alot of chemistry hunting and Torts simply playing the guys he thinks will get it done. Or does Brad Richards giving us a legit first line change all of that?

Swept In Seven 08-14-2011 03:02 PM

He has lines and he plays the ones that are playing the best.

Darrelle Lundqvist 08-14-2011 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJBergy86 (Post 35918111)
He has lines and he plays the ones that are playing the best.

Agreed.

007 08-15-2011 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0flames (Post 35918073)
With the daily poll of what player ends on what line, and labeling lines as 1st through 4th, I believe myself to be of the few holding the opinion that Torts doesn't actually use a first line second or a third line the way other teams might conventionally do. Consider the BAR line from last year receiving first line minutes, and the boyle prust feds line playing 2nd line minutes, combined with the now (in)famous line switching, and you have to wonder if this team is going to have traditional tiered lines, or if we're going to alot of chemistry hunting and Torts simply playing the guys he thinks will get it done. Or does Brad Richards giving us a legit first line change all of that?

I completely agree. I don't think Torts really has lines, in the classic sense. He mixes and matches. Sometimes (Feds-Boyle-Prust) the corresponding parts add up so that he doesn't change them, but he'll work to get his best players on the ice in any given game. If the Rangers had a more distinct top-6, it probably would be different, but a lot of what he does is trying to get the right combo for Gaborik, or extra minutes for Dubi or Callahan.

Krampus 08-15-2011 07:26 AM

I see what you mean, but although the lines are often mixed, and played according to the situation, we still have a general idea of who the guys that will generally play 1st. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th line minutes

xxxZENxxx 08-15-2011 07:44 AM

Torts is known for riding his best players, but he has never had the ideal group of players in NY to be able to do that. Between players asked to play beyond their scope and injuries... last year was a tough one to try to make conclusions from. The presence of BR makes this year a little different. I expect BR & Gabby to get a ridiculous number of minutes.

Levitate 08-15-2011 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 007 (Post 35932905)
I completely agree. I don't think Torts really has lines, in the classic sense. He mixes and matches. Sometimes (Feds-Boyle-Prust) the corresponding parts add up so that he doesn't change them, but he'll work to get his best players on the ice in any given game. If the Rangers had a more distinct top-6, it probably would be different, but a lot of what he does is trying to get the right combo for Gaborik, or extra minutes for Dubi or Callahan.

This is what most coaches do these days I think. Lines don't stick together for long periods of times because coaches will move things around if things aren't working well. You don't have a set bunch of lines that get X amount of icetime and are kept together no matter what. If lines are struggling, any coach will adjust icetime or mix up the lines (which is why I laugh when people complain about Tortorella mixing up the lines...every coach in the NHL does it and every teams fan base complains about it like it's something unique to their team)

At any rate, people should also keep in mind that if Gaborik and Richards and whoever on their left wing really click, it's going to mean less icetime for players like Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, and especially Boyle, Prust, etc.

We might see players like Callahan either holding steady at their point totals or even declining a bit as they get less icetime. Of course, if that's offset by a large increase in scoring from Gaborik and Richards, the team should still come out on top.

Vitto79 08-15-2011 10:20 AM

if Boyle plays 4th line C then I think whoever plays best gets minutes but if they have a Avery, Rupp, Prust 4th line then no matter what they get less minutes then the rest

prust ill get PK time as well as he thrived in that last yr

Levitate 08-15-2011 10:33 AM

So will Boyle, but these guys just aren't going to be getting the same kind of even strength minutes they did last year if things go according to plan. Which is actually a GOOD thing, just that we should be prepared for some drop off in overall numbers since Gaborik really wasn't getting a ton of icetime last year

007 08-15-2011 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levitate (Post 35936201)
This is what most coaches do these days I think. Lines don't stick together for long periods of times because coaches will move things around if things aren't working well. You don't have a set bunch of lines that get X amount of icetime and are kept together no matter what. If lines are struggling, any coach will adjust icetime or mix up the lines (which is why I laugh when people complain about Tortorella mixing up the lines...every coach in the NHL does it and every teams fan base complains about it like it's something unique to their team)

At any rate, people should also keep in mind that if Gaborik and Richards and whoever on their left wing really click, it's going to mean less icetime for players like Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, and especially Boyle, Prust, etc.

We might see players like Callahan either holding steady at their point totals or even declining a bit as they get less icetime. Of course, if that's offset by a large increase in scoring from Gaborik and Richards, the team should still come out on top.

What's been interesting (and impressive) over the last couple of years, is that Torts has had to adapt his coaching style. He's always had a reputation, which he himself openly admits, as a guy who plays a short bench, rotating 9 or 10 players, rather than a full 4 lines. Last season, however, he really did use the entire forward roster, giving the less skilled players real minutes because they stepped up.

It'll be interesting to see how much those minutes suffer if Richards and Gaborik do click, or if the way Torts runs a game has fundamentally evolved.

NYR Sting 08-15-2011 12:41 PM

When your team has one of the least talented and skilled groups of forwards in the league, and has one legit first line player, a sniper who can easily be taken out of the game by opposing teams, you're not going to have much of a "first" line.

You'll see a drastic change in this trend this season with the addition of Richards. This isn't a Tortorella thing. You can find this with plenty of average and worse teams around the league.

Blueshirt Special 08-15-2011 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting36e (Post 35940153)
When your team has one of the least talented and skilled groups of forwards in the league, and has one legit first line player, a sniper who can easily be taken out of the game by opposing teams, you're not going to have much of a "first" line.

You'll see a drastic change in this trend this season with the addition of Richards. This isn't a Tortorella thing. You can find this with plenty of average and worse teams around the league.

you know if we had a "like" button I would have to quote this. Just sayin'


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