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-   -   Flames & Sharks Proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=97004)

Hagar 08-10-2004 05:20 PM

Flames & Sharks Proposal
 
Leopold, Reinprect, Clark To Sharks
Marleau and 2nd rnd pick To Flames

Both Leopold and Marleau are untouchables, but why not!

Lets hear from all you nay sayers

Hagar

Super-Rye 08-10-2004 05:34 PM

Calgary doesn't touch this deal. o.o

Flames Draft Watcher 08-10-2004 05:35 PM

:thumbd:

Leopold is far too high a price to pay to upgrade Reinprecht into Marleau.

Vatican Roulette 08-10-2004 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hagar
Leopold, Reinprect, Clark To Sharks
Marleau and 2nd rnd pick To Flames

Both Leopold and Marleau are untouchables, but why not!

Lets hear from all you nay sayers

Hagar

SJ has one of the best young defenses in the NHL, just like Calgary. They have a decent group of good young forwards, but most of them dont have the high end game breaking ability that Marleau has.

The deal does nothing to address SJ's needs, only hurts them.


Also, adding Rhino into the deal makes it unfair. Clark and Rhino would not go for a 2nd, as i see Leopold for Marleau as an even swap.

Hagar 08-10-2004 05:39 PM

Leopold is not even for Marleau

Hagar

Flamer 08-10-2004 05:40 PM

Not a chance the Flames would do this deal.

Not a terrible proposal, but not one that I'd consider, either.

HuskyFlames 08-10-2004 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hagar
Leopold is not even for Marleau

Hagar

And why is that? Marleau best season is 57 points WITH 1st line icetime WHILE Rhino has had 51 point with basically 3rd line icetime. While Marleau is good you are definately overvaluing him. He has talent but hasn't put up the "great" numbers to show it. At this point in his career Rhino can do (point wise) what marleau can do.

Darth Milbury 08-10-2004 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hagar
Leopold, Reinprect, Clark To Sharks
Marleau and 2nd rnd pick To Flames

Both Leopold and Marleau are untouchables, but why not!

Lets hear from all you nay sayers

Hagar

I like it for Calgary, but then I think Marleau has another gear left and think he could score 80 points for the Flames.

Flames Draft Watcher 08-10-2004 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I like it for Calgary, but then I think Marleau has another gear left and think he could score 80 points for the Flames.

Blech. I see it as a massive overpayment from Calgary's end. A 1st line centre + a top two defensemen who will be an all star for a better 1st line centre.

No thanks. As another poster mentioned, it's debateable whether Marleau is worth more than Leopold. Of course that all depends on how rare you think legitimate top two defensemen are and how much you value them in comparison to forwards. There's only 6 defensemen playing the 60 minutes but you have 12 forwards splitting the time up front.

:thumbd:

Reinprecht + Leopold is too much to give up for almost any player in the league IMO. I'd do it for Dany Healtey or Rick Nash or somebody along those lines but not for Marleau.

Hagar 08-10-2004 05:52 PM

[QUOTE=Flames Draft Watcher]Blech. I see it as a massive overpayment from Calgary's end. A 1st line centre + a top two defensemen who will be an all star for a better 1st line centre.

Blech ?? Wow, The flames dooo need a beter centre, and to get him they need to give up somthing they don't want to. Why would the Sharks even think about it without the BAIT!

Hagar

HuskyFlames 08-10-2004 05:54 PM

[QUOTE=Hagar]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Blech. I see it as a massive overpayment from Calgary's end. A 1st line centre + a top two defensemen who will be an all star for a better 1st line centre.

Blech ?? Wow, The flames dooo need a beter centre, and to get him they need to give up somthing they don't want to. Why would the Sharks even think about it without the BAIT!

Hagar

There are 1st lines centers that could be had for much less. Sutter isn't an idiot and would NEVER do such a ludacrious deal for the Flames.

Flames Draft Watcher 08-10-2004 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hagar
Blech ?? Wow, The flames dooo need a beter centre, and to get him they need to give up somthing they don't want to. Why would the Sharks even think about it without the BAIT!

Hagar

If that's the price of getting a better centre than no thanks.

Obviously you don't value Leopold or Reinprecht is the same ballpark that I do. Or perhaps you think Marleau is the next Sakic, who knows. To me it's like asking the Canucks to give up Morrison + Ohlund for Marleau. Of course they wouldn't do it. Or asking the Thrashers to give up Savard + Coburn for Marleau. WAY too much.

Hagar 08-10-2004 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
If that's the price of getting a better centre than no thanks.

Obviously you don't value Leopold or Reinprecht is the same ballpark that I do. Or perhaps you think Marleau is the next Sakic, who knows. To me it's like asking the Canucks to give up Morrison + Ohlund for Marleau. Of course they wouldn't do it. Or asking the Thrashers to give up Savard + Coburn for Marleau. WAY too much.

Both are good players, but, a #1 centre with good size. speed, and goes hard into every tough spot. What is the going price for the youngster?

HuskyFlames 08-10-2004 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hagar
Both are good players, but, a #1 centre with good size. speed, and goes hard into every tough spot. What is the going price for the youngster?

The Flames are not willing to sacrafice two valuable players (Sutter has been saying since Conroy departure that Rhino has the #1 spot) for an improvement on Rhino. Leopold is our only real PP QB (other than Lydman at times) and the Flames cannot sacrafice 2 key players for right now a 6-10 point more per season center. Keep in mind Marleau has yet to break 60 points which is not great for a #1 center playing in the NHL so long.

DontCallPlayersStuds 08-10-2004 06:18 PM

Marleau is the best player in this deal, by far, and I wouldn't do it if I were the SHARKS, personally.

HuskyFlames 08-10-2004 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
Marleau is the best player in this deal, by far, and I wouldn't do it if I were the SHARKS, personally.

And how are judging Marleau? Because by points his best season barely beats out Rhino best season. Rhino was used as a 3rd liner while Marluea was a #1 center. Rhino isn't at Marleau level but playing #1 line time and beside Iginla will definately help his game. Rhino has better skills then Conroy and look what Conroy and Iginla did, giving Iginla a better passer and scorer will only help even more. The upgrade at center is marginal for the Flames (at this point in Marluea's career) and they give up to much to get it as well. Once again, not worth it.

AvengerK 08-10-2004 06:50 PM

LOL. Seems some of you are forgetting that Sutter was the one who developed Marleau into the player he is today, and Sutter has had some pretty high praise for Marleau.

Gibsons Finest 08-10-2004 06:57 PM

I wouldn't touch it if I were the Sharks. No need for Leopold, and they do need Marleau.

Some of you Flames fans really overrate your players. Rhino isn't a first line center, no matter what you think, and isn't close to Marleau. Marleau is alot more valuble than Leopold.

The part that really bugs me is what FDW said about only doing Leopold+Rhino for a Heatley or Rick Nash. Are you insane? That would never get you either, and the most you could get would be someone of Marleau's calibre, plus something else. I realize you probably don't want to deal either, but when you say that, it makes me think that you think the combined vale of those two is in the ball park of a Rick Nash or Heatley.

Also, Leo+Rhino isn't even close to Morrison+Ohlund, or Savard+Coburn.

Darth Milbury 08-10-2004 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomorekids
Marleau is the best player in this deal, by far, and I wouldn't do it if I were the SHARKS, personally.


Completely agree. Reinprecht is getting seriously overrated in this thread.

Darth Milbury 08-10-2004 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
And how are judging Marleau? Because by points his best season barely beats out Rhino best season. Rhino was used as a 3rd liner while Marluea was a #1 center. Rhino isn't at Marleau level but playing #1 line time and beside Iginla will definately help his game. Rhino has better skills then Conroy and look what Conroy and Iginla did, giving Iginla a better passer and scorer will only help even more. The upgrade at center is marginal for the Flames (at this point in Marluea's career) and they give up to much to get it as well. Once again, not worth it.


Marleau has had 5 20 goal seasons in his career. Reinprecht has had none.

Marleau has never missed more then 3 games in a season. Reinprecht has missed significant time nearly every year that he has been in the NHL.

Mareleau's career high in goals is 28. Reinprecht's career high is 19.

And, don't give me that nonesense about "third line" ice time because 1) Reinprecht did not get third line icetime in Col, 2) Reinprecht faced no checking pressure in Col. Mareleau faces the other team's best checkers every night.

I'm not going to even bother responding to FDW's statement about a package of Reinprecht and Leopold being able to get any player in the league (with the exception of a small handful) .

HuskyFlames 08-10-2004 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Completely agree. Reinprecht is getting seriously overrated in this thread.

Mearluea maybe bigger and strong, etc BUT for career point wise in 1 season he is only a few points ahead of Rhino and this was when Marleau played 18.18 minutes per game of #1 center icetime while Rhino played 17.34 points per game NON #1 icetime. Also keep in mind Rhino time on ice included nearly 2.5 minutes of PK time while Marleau played just under 1 minute of PK per game.

So basically they also had the same points while Rhino played about 15.5 minutes of EV and PP time and Marleau played 17 minutes of EV and PP time.

To me Rhino is capable of putting up the points with Iginla. Keep in mind both players both had career years in the last 2 years of their careers so it is not like one had a best year 5 years ago, etc.

HuskyFlames 08-10-2004 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Marleau has had 5 20 goal seasons in his career. Reinprecht has had none.

Marleau has never missed more then 3 games in a season. Reinprecht has missed significant time nearly every year that he has been in the NHL.

Mareleau's career high in goals is 28. Reinprecht's career high is 19.

What is your point about goals? If you forgot to remember the Flames have IGINLA which is their sniper. He needs a setup man which is what Rhino EXCELS in! Don't forget to mention that Marleau is making 2+ million per year in in the next 3 years will be making too much for the Flames to keep with Iginla.

Darth Milbury 08-10-2004 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Mearluea maybe bigger and strong, etc BUT for career point wise in 1 season he is only a few points ahead of Rhino and this was when Marleau played 18.18 minutes per game of #1 center icetime while Rhino played 17.34 points per game NON #1 icetime. Also keep in mind Rhino time on ice included nearly 2.5 minutes of PK time while Marleau played just under 1 minute of PK per game.

So basically they also had the same points while Rhino played about 15.5 minutes of EV and PP time and Marleau played 17 minutes of EV and PP time.

To me Rhino is capable of putting up the points with Iginla. Keep in mind both players both had career years in the last 2 years of their careers so it is not like one had a best year 5 years ago, etc.


Oh, so Marleau played about 1 minute more per game, and that accounts for the difference in points, eh? C'mon dude, you are reaching for it.

Patty Ice 08-10-2004 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
And why is that? Marleau best season is 57 points WITH 1st line icetime WHILE Rhino has had 51 point with basically 3rd line icetime. While Marleau is good you are definately overvaluing him. He has talent but hasn't put up the "great" numbers to show it. At this point in his career Rhino can do (point wise) what marleau can do.

Ok...you keep Rhino n the Sharks will keep Marleau. Sharks wouldn't touch that deal with a ten foot pole. Solves none of their wholes but creates a bigger one.

chriss_co 08-10-2004 07:41 PM

lol

its funny how both shark fans and flame fans dislike this deal because both sides think they are giving up too much


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