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-   -   Bodycheck off the faceoff? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=972159)

noobman 08-21-2011 04:32 PM

Bodycheck off the faceoff?
 
Is there any reason why you don't see people do this anymore? Does it count as a penalty or something?

I remember back in the day Eric Lindros would do it from time to time... the ref would drop the puck and he'd just bowl the centreman over and take the puck. Nowadays at virtually every level you see scrums and tie ups, but nobody throws the body off the draw.

What gives? If I was strong enough I might try it.

Renbarg 08-21-2011 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 36096137)
Is there any reason why you don't see people do this anymore? Does it count as a penalty or something?

I remember back in the day Eric Lindros would do it from time to time... the ref would drop the puck and he'd just bowl the centreman over and take the puck. Nowadays at virtually every level you see scrums and tie ups, but nobody throws the body off the draw.

What gives? If I was strong enough I might try it.

Its hard to actually do it physically. Lindros used to throw his hands into the other guys face, to throw them off balance, and then go in with the shoulder. That's textbook roughing. It's impossible to get enough leverage to actually make meaningful hit off the faceoff legally.

bigwillie 08-21-2011 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renbarg (Post 36097293)
Its hard to actually do it physically. Lindros used to throw his hands into the other guys face, to throw them off balance, and then go in with the shoulder. That's textbook roughing. It's impossible to get enough leverage to actually make meaningful hit off the faceoff legally.

It was definitely only really possible in the "Old" NHL. Nowadays stuff like that just doesn't fly.

The Tikkanen 08-21-2011 07:26 PM

Most refs would give you an interference penalty in rec league play.

FDBluth 08-21-2011 08:15 PM

That would be a pretty big dick move to try. Especially if it's just in a recreational league.

Guffaw 08-21-2011 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renbarg (Post 36097293)
Its hard to actually do it physically. Lindros used to throw his hands into the other guys face, to throw them off balance, and then go in with the shoulder. That's textbook roughing. It's impossible to get enough leverage to actually make meaningful hit off the faceoff legally.

Or how about when he came into the league he was just bigger and stronger than anybody else. Those first few years were funny at times. Grown men bouncing off of a 19 yr. old:laugh:

cptjeff 08-21-2011 11:42 PM

Something you might try as a variant is to swing your body sideways into the opposing center right when the puck is dropped. Moves him away from it, and puts you between him and the puck to give you access. It wouldn't be a meaningful hit, but it is useful for winning a faceoff.

To describe it a little differently, swivel your position around so that you're right where he's supposed to be standing, shove him back and dish the puck where you want it.

nullterm 08-22-2011 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjeff (Post 36104459)
Something you might try as a variant is to swing your body sideways into the opposing center right when the puck is dropped. Moves him away from it, and puts you between him and the puck to give you access. It wouldn't be a meaningful hit, but it is useful for winning a faceoff.

To describe it a little differently, swivel your position around so that you're right where he's supposed to be standing, shove him back and dish the puck where you want it.

This. Block his stick from getting the puck (usually with your stick, sometimes leg) and step into the guy.

Alternatively, make sure your winger knows to jump in. You can tie up the guy, step forward over the puck to protect, and let your winger snatch the puck and make the next play. You just need to focus on taking the center out of the play.

noobman 08-22-2011 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cptjeff (Post 36104459)
Something you might try as a variant is to swing your body sideways into the opposing center right when the puck is dropped. Moves him away from it, and puts you between him and the puck to give you access. It wouldn't be a meaningful hit, but it is useful for winning a faceoff.

To describe it a little differently, swivel your position around so that you're right where he's supposed to be standing, shove him back and dish the puck where you want it.

What I've done in the past is tied up the stick and spun around so that I was facing the same direction as him (effectively shielding the puck with my body) before either kicking the puck to whomever I wanted to give it to or trying to free up my stick and dish the puck to someone that way.


I don't really play center (although on a draw toss out and the PK I was the faceoff guy when I used to play league hockey) but I was ok faceoffs. I'm really just more interested in the full-blown bodycheck off the draw. Surely there's someone other than Lindros who could pull it off, and surely if the hit is delivered cleanly it shouldn't be a penalty call.

It was hard to do, but I found a clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqyNCs8i3g#t=1m13s (not embedded so it flips straight to the clip). Lindros throws the hit off the draw and the referee seems to hesitate a little bit before putting his hand up in the air. Looking at that hit, I suppose it's a *bit* of a cross-check... but something like that was fine and dandy in the 90s. Beyond that it's a good hit imo. He makes contact and absolutely bowls the guy over. No facewash, no headshot, nothing.

tarheelhockey 08-22-2011 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDBluth (Post 36100563)
That would be a pretty big dick move to try. Especially if it's just in a recreational league.

This. Just speaking personally, I'd be sure to return that little cheapshot in the near future.

Jarick 08-22-2011 09:10 AM

Yep, it's an interference call nowadays.

On a related note, there was a guy who was hacking our sticks on every draw the second the puck was dropped, so we started "lifting" his stick out of his hands. I thought that was a pretty big dick move in rec league...thanks for slashing my stick on the draw for no reason...

SJGoalie32 08-22-2011 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 36106111)
What I've done in the past is tied up the stick and spun around so that I was facing the same direction as him (effectively shielding the puck with my body) before either kicking the puck to whomever I wanted to give it to or trying to free up my stick and dish the puck to someone that way.

Which is exactly how you get the faceoff "scrums" you were talking about. You go to tie up his stick, he does the same thing tying up your stick, and now you're both leaning into each other trying to kick the puck to teammate.

So basically, all those tie-ups you see are the result of everybody else doing what you just described doing yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 36106111)
I'm really just more interested in the full-blown bodycheck off the draw. Surely there's someone other than Lindros who could pull it off, and surely if the hit is delivered cleanly it shouldn't be a penalty call.

In a non-checking league, it most certainly is a penalty.

In a checking league, if the puck is gone, it is often an interference or roughing penalty.

And as others already pointed out, even at the NHL level, Lindros' size made him a men amongst boys. For those who AREN'T 6'-4", 245 lbs. (and even for those who are), it's very hard to completely flatten someone of comparable size (much less someone bigger than you) when you're standing completely still less than 3 feet away from them and have no momentum going into the hit. More often than not, you'll either just bounce off of them or lightly shove them. In order for the hit to mean anything, you almost have to bring your hands and shoulders up high to hit them. Meanwhile, when you were busy focusing on throwing the hit, their centerman was busy winning the draw and his team now has control of the puck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 36106111)
It was hard to do, but I found a clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqyNCs8i3g#t=1m13s (not embedded so it flips straight to the clip). Lindros throws the hit off the draw and the referee seems to hesitate a little bit before putting his hand up in the air. Looking at that hit, I suppose it's a *bit* of a cross-check... but something like that was fine and dandy in the 90s. Beyond that it's a good hit imo. He makes contact and absolutely bowls the guy over. No facewash, no headshot, nothing.

So even in your NHL clip from the 90's.....Lindros still got hit with a penalty.

That's why nobody does it. At best, it's a dirty cheap trick that will encourage the other teams' enforcers to give you an extra whack or two. On the other side of the spectrum, you have everything from getting caught out of position and walked around like a traffic cone to losing the puck and drawing a penalty......and even that's only if you have the size, leverage, and luck to do it properly.

There really is just very little upside with a ton of downside.

rinkrat22 08-22-2011 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tikkanen (Post 36099627)
Most refs would give you an interference penalty in rec league play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 36108673)
This. Just speaking personally, I'd be sure to return that little cheapshot in the near future.

yeah I could see a checking penality in my future:sarcasm:

Jimmy Carter 08-24-2011 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noobman (Post 36106111)
What I've done in the past is tied up the stick and spun around so that I was facing the same direction as him (effectively shielding the puck with my body) before either kicking the puck to whomever I wanted to give it to or trying to free up my stick and dish the puck to someone that way.


I don't really play center (although on a draw toss out and the PK I was the faceoff guy when I used to play league hockey) but I was ok faceoffs. I'm really just more interested in the full-blown bodycheck off the draw. Surely there's someone other than Lindros who could pull it off, and surely if the hit is delivered cleanly it shouldn't be a penalty call.

It was hard to do, but I found a clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWqyNCs8i3g#t=1m13s (not embedded so it flips straight to the clip). Lindros throws the hit off the draw and the referee seems to hesitate a little bit before putting his hand up in the air. Looking at that hit, I suppose it's a *bit* of a cross-check... but something like that was fine and dandy in the 90s. Beyond that it's a good hit imo. He makes contact and absolutely bowls the guy over. No facewash, no headshot, nothing.

Off topic, but I hadn't watched Lindros clips in a while... nothing is scarier than a guy who can manhandle Scott Stevens :laugh:

Guffaw 08-25-2011 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Carter (Post 36185201)
Off topic, but I hadn't watched Lindros clips in a while... nothing is scarier than a guy who can manhandle Scott Stevens :laugh:

Great video. I miss the guy.

In his prime and healthy he was the greatest player by far to ever put on that jersey. We've not seen the likes of him since in the NHL and may not ever again. :(


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