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-   -   Marc Staal SPC a bigger bargain 1 year later (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=983975)

RangerBoy 09-14-2011 04:57 AM

Marc Staal SPC a bigger bargain 1 year later
 
Marc Staal signed a 5 year extension worth $19.875M. $3.975M cap hit. September 16,2010.

Damien Cox thought it was a bad deal.

Quote:

Moreover, Staal had no real leverage with the Rangers. No offer sheet or a realistic expectation of one. No rival league. No arbitration rights.

But they paid up anyway, ostensibly to lock Staal up and obviously believing there's greater upside to his game, particularly his offensive game, than has been demonstrated so far.

Hey, he may have Rozsival-like potential.

http://thestar.blogs.com/thespin/201...ne-by-one.html

His beloved Leafs are on the verge of giving Schenn 3 years for nearly $12M.

Quote:

I'm hearing Luke Schenn deal will most likely be officially announced Friday. Trying to confirm but hearing 3year deal around 4million per
https://twitter.com/#!/JoshRimerHock...22188833996801

Buffalo is on the verge of giving Tyler Myers $5.5M AAV ballpark. Bob McKenzie is discussing Myers and John Tavares in the next tweet

Quote:

Both deals are expected to be in 6 year range, give or take a year, and worth an average of $5.5M, give or take a few hundred thousand.
https://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzi...50069484191744

Second contract for Staal,Schenn and Myers who still has 1 year remaining on his ELC.

Under the current CBA,Staal gave up 1 year of group III. Schenn will still be a group II after the 3 year deal. Myers will be 22 next season. He would be giving up 2 years of group III if he reaches the 7 years accrued years. 40 NHL games per season.

pld459666 09-14-2011 07:34 AM

.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBoy (Post 36686915)
Marc Staal signed a 5 year extension worth $19.875M. $3.975M cap hit. September 16,2010.

Damien Cox thought it was a bad deal.



http://thestar.blogs.com/thespin/201...ne-by-one.html

His beloved Leafs are on the verge of giving Schenn 3 years for nearly $12M.



https://twitter.com/#!/JoshRimerHock...22188833996801

Buffalo is on the verge of giving Tyler Myers $5.5M AAV ballpark. Bob McKenzie is discussing Myers and John Tavares in the next tweet



https://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzi...50069484191744

Second contract for Staal,Schenn and Myers who still has 1 year remaining on his ELC.

Under the current CBA,Staal gave up 1 year of group III. Schenn will still be a group II after the 3 year deal. Myers will be 22 next season. He would be giving up 2 years of group III if he reaches the 7 years accrued years. 40 NHL games per season.

Damien Cox is an idiot, so what he thinks is moo anyway.

Moo, you know, what a cow thinks? It doesn't matter

beastly115 09-14-2011 08:11 AM

LOL Schenn getting more than Staal? I sure hope so. I love seeing Burke overpay his players.

Trxjw 09-14-2011 08:23 AM

Staal at less than $4MM per year is an absolute bargain. I'm not sure I'd draw Tyler Myers as a comparable though.

DutchShamrock 09-14-2011 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 36688299)
Staal at less than $4MM per year is an absolute bargain. I'm not sure I'd draw Tyler Myers as a comparable though.

Maybe not comparable players, but comparable situations. Cox wants to rip up the Rangers because Staal had no leverage, no arb, no offer sheet potential, no alternative leagues... Staal would have signed for minimum according to Cox's logic. Myers is in the same situation but he's going to get over $1.5m more? Just sounds like the typical Ranger bias to me.

RangerBoy 09-14-2011 09:01 AM

Myers is a good player. Excellent in his first year and OK last season. He still has another season remaining on his ELC. $5.5M AAV for a 2nd contract seems kind of steep. Is Myers that much better than Staal? Even Doughty? $6M?7M? The Rangers have Staal for 4 more years at a cap hit just under $4M.

Trxjw 09-14-2011 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBoy (Post 36688957)
Myers is a good player. Excellent in his first year and OK last season. He still has another season remaining on his ELC. $5.5M AAV for a 2nd contract seems kind of steep. Is Myers that much better than Staal? Even Doughty? $6M?7M? The Rangers have Staal for 4 more years at a cap hit just under $4M.

That much better? It's all relative I suppose. You pay a premium for puck moving d-men that are also competent in their own zone. Shut-down types, at least on average, tend to come cheaper. So, while it's arguable who's "better" I have to think that Myers has more value due to his offensive abilities.

silverfish 09-14-2011 09:28 AM

Posted a variation of this in my blog after JvR signed his extension...

Sather locked up Dubinsky to a 2 year deal after his ELC ran out with a cap hit of $1.85 million and then inked him to a 4 year deal this offseason with the cap hit of $4.2 million. Both of those totals are lower than the 6 year deal JvR inked before his ELC even ran out.

Sather has gotten smarter over the years since the Redden UFA contract, but to deny the fact that he knows what he's doing with his RFA's like Cox suggested when he inked Marc Staal is ludicrous.

Myer's commanding $5.5 million is a little ridiculous. He SHOULD be in the market for a 2 year extension worth about $6 million, and then re-up from there. If I'm the Sabres I'm not negotiating a long term deal worth $5.5 million. Chances are his value after the 2 year deal will be close to $5.5 million still with the way the Cap seems to be trending after this year's CBA expires.

Two years at $3 million, 5 or 6 at $5.5 million...

But this years off-season market has been a joke with some of these contracts. They're all going to hurt next season when the max cap hit dips below $60 million.

NYR Viper 09-14-2011 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverfish (Post 36689541)
Posted a variation of this in my blog after JvR signed his extension...

Sather locked up Dubinsky to a 2 year deal after his ELC ran out with a cap hit of $1.85 million and then inked him to a 4 year deal this offseason with the cap hit of $4.2 million. Both of those totals are lower than the 6 year deal JvR inked before his ELC even ran out.

Sather has gotten smarter over the years since the Redden UFA contract, but to deny the fact that he knows what he's doing with his RFA's like Cox suggested when he inked Marc Staal is ludicrous.

Myer's commanding $5.5 million is a little ridiculous. He SHOULD be in the market for a 2 year extension worth about $6 million, and then re-up from there. If I'm the Sabres I'm not negotiating a long term deal worth $5.5 million. Chances are his value after the 2 year deal will be close to $5.5 million still with the way the Cap seems to be trending after this year's CBA expires.

Two years at $3 million, 5 or 6 at $5.5 million...

But this years off-season market has been a joke with some of these contracts. They're all going to hurt next season when the max cap hit dips below $60 million.

There is NO WAY Myers should be making more than Ehrhoff or Regehr at this point in his career. Does he have unreal potential? Of course. But he isn't better than either of those 2 right now.

Is it possible Buffalo is saying, "listen, we will pay you starting now so that when this contract is up, you will give us a good deal on your next contract?" I mean he will be what? 28 or 29 at the end of this one?

Swept In Seven 09-14-2011 09:38 AM

Yeah he is a great value and its only going to get better while he continues to grow and progress

satrabyk 09-14-2011 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 (Post 36689649)
There is NO WAY Myers should be making more than Ehrhoff or Regehr at this point in his career. Does he have unreal potential? Of course. But he isn't better than either of those 2 right now.

Is it possible Buffalo is saying, "listen, we will pay you starting now so that when this contract is up, you will give us a good deal on your next contract?" I mean he will be what? 28 or 29 at the end of this one?

REALLY. Myers is already a top 10 D man in the league. If i had to choose 1 D he would defenitely be in my thinking. He is and will be a better player than those 2 menioned not that there bad but Myers is at another level, higher than Stall also.

DutchShamrock 09-14-2011 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satrabyk (Post 36689869)
REALLY. Myers is already a top 10 D man in the league. If i had to choose 1 D he would defenitely be in my thinking. He is and will be a better player than those 2 menioned not that there bad but Myers is at another level, higher than Stall also.

No way. Not right now. There is definitely 20 D men better than him right now. Top ten is such a stretch. I'm not saying he isn't a #1, I'm not saying he doesn't possess the potential to be top ten, but the fact is he had a big step back last year. To just infer that half of his career so far has zero bearing on his future, that we can ignore that and bump him up past 170 other defenseman is crazy. Buffalo is overpaying for pretty much all of the reasons Cox threw out there on Staal, and he'll sign for $1.5m more than what Staal did.

wolfgaze 09-14-2011 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satrabyk (Post 36689869)
REALLY. Myers is already a top 10 D man in the league. If i had to choose 1 D he would defenitely be in my thinking. He is and will be a better player than those 2 menioned not that there bad but Myers is at another level, higher than Stall also.

Disagree... Myers struggled quite a bit last season early on and then turned it around a bit to salvage his season. Myers is definitely not as good defensively as STAAL* and can't be relied on to contain opposing teams' top forwards the way Marc can.... Myers has a lot of tools at his disposal but IMHO he definitely hasn't proven to be a Top 10 d-man in this league after only 2 years in the league and the last one in which he struggled quite a bit.

RangerBoy 09-14-2011 09:58 AM

From: @Real_ESPNLeBrun
Sent: Sep 14, 2011 10:44a

Hearing that Myers deal in Buffalo will be for seven years, worth around $5.5 million per year

sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/s...86388210352128

For that type of contract,Myers better become a #1 D.

NYR Viper 09-14-2011 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfgaze (Post 36690051)
Disagree... Myers struggled quite a bit last season early on and then turned it around a bit to salvage his season. Myers is definitely not as good defensively as STAAL* and can't be relied on to contain opposing teams' top forwards the way Marc can.... Myers has a lot of tools at his disposal but IMHO he definitely hasn't proven to be a Top 10 d-man in this league....

Yeah it's not even close really. Defensively he is a 2nd pairing defenseman. Offensively he can be the PP QB. That does not make him top-20 in the league.

Regehr is still one of the best shut-down d-men in the league.

1st tier (in no particular order):
Chara
Lidstrom
Weber
Suter
Doughty
Boyle
Burns
Pronger
Letang
Staal - If he wasn't better why was he chosen as an All-Star over Myers?)
Edler
Keith
Seabrook
Visnovsky


2nd tier (in no particular order):
Wisniewski
Campbell
Myers
Markov
Seidenberg
Green
Hedman
Phaneuf
Schenn
Girardi
JBo
Orpik
Regehr
Robidas
Murray
Hamhuis
Kronwall
E. Johnson
J. Johnson
Bieksa
Karlsson

Inferno 09-14-2011 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 36687767)
Damien Cox is an idiot, so what he thinks is moo anyway.

Moo, you know, what a cow thinks? It doesn't matter

you think you can slip a friends reference by me? oh no sir....not on your best day. :p:

BlueshirtBlitz 09-14-2011 10:26 AM

I take Tyler Myers over a lot of guys. He's going to have a lot of weapons around him this season, I wouldn't be surprised if he hit 50+ points.

OverTheCap 09-14-2011 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trxjw (Post 36689535)
That much better? It's all relative I suppose. You pay a premium for puck moving d-men that are also competent in their own zone. Shut-down types, at least on average, tend to come cheaper. So, while it's arguable who's "better" I have to think that Myers has more value due to his offensive abilities.

I agree, offensive defensemen are almost always more expensive than stay-at-home defensemen. Staal hasn't touched 37 points, let alone 48 points, which Myers has already accomplished. Myers is getting paid more because he's capable of scoring 10-20 points more than Staal, even though Staal is superior defensively.

This is why I was shocked at what the Devils offered Anton Volchenkov last summer... for a shutdown defender who has no offensive game, a $4.25 cap hit is absurd.

pld459666 09-14-2011 10:48 AM

.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Inferno272 (Post 36690633)
you think you can slip a friends reference by me? oh no sir....not on your best day. :p:

lol.

only one to catch it, or mention it.

ranger_nick 09-14-2011 11:48 AM

cox has been saying stupid things forever.

he predicts toronto to Finnish ahead of NYR like every year.

I can't believe a guy like this gets employed for his opinion.

Machinehead 09-14-2011 12:17 PM

I thought it was a great deal from day one. I even said to my mom who I was with when I heard the news "Wow this is great, he's not worth this much right now, but he'll be worth twice this much down the line and we'll still have him for the original price." Now I don't know about "twice", perhaps that was a bit of hyperbole, but still, he's gonna be worth more than 3.9+ for the majority of that contract. Any time you have a player on the roster for less than what he's worth, you win.

Fitzy 09-14-2011 01:13 PM

Its a good deal for the cap hit.

Just the same as with Dubinsky and Callahan, I hope that there are plans to keep them potentially for the duration of their careers. We'll see what happens, though.

Hockey Team 09-14-2011 01:14 PM

Yeah, we could've gotten staal at close to the minimum, but not for 5 years.

That's the idea behind the deal, was to get him for multiple years.

n8 09-14-2011 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBoy (Post 36688957)
Myers is a good player. Excellent in his first year and OK last season. He still has another season remaining on his ELC. $5.5M AAV for a 2nd contract seems kind of steep. Is Myers that much better than Staal? Even Doughty? $6M?7M? The Rangers have Staal for 4 more years at a cap hit just under $4M.

seems ridiculous. and talk about a player with no leverage. I really don't think Myers is gonna be as good as Doughty and Weber so it's not like if they resigned him at 2 years, $3M he'd be pulling $7.5M during his arbitration year. They could save $5M. And at 7 years? Some risk there with such a cap hit. I simply love the job our management has done with getting value extensions. establishing a tone that you don't get a big raise in your first RFA no arbitration extension and merit based raises based on your RFA arbitration season, but still getting good value contracts like they did with all our RFAs this summer. :handclap:

n8 09-14-2011 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock (Post 36689983)
No way. Not right now. There is definitely 20 D men better than him right now. Top ten is such a stretch. I'm not saying he isn't a #1, I'm not saying he doesn't possess the potential to be top ten, but the fact is he had a big step back last year. To just infer that half of his career so far has zero bearing on his future, that we can ignore that and bump him up past 170 other defenseman is crazy. Buffalo is overpaying for pretty much all of the reasons Cox threw out there on Staal, and he'll sign for $1.5m more than what Staal did.

I think he's just looking at his stats which are certainly attractive but yeah, anyone who has watched these two players knows Staal is the better d-man and that there are a lot of other d-men in the league who performed (overall) better than Myers last season.


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