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canucks1982 09-16-2011 01:09 AM

sedins playoff history
 
yes I know the Sedin didn't lead the canucks to the stanley cup yet but I think Sedins get too much bashing from fans about their playoff stats. Overall the last 3yrs. The Sedins production are not great but they are pretty good

last 3 yrs. henrik had 22 points in 25 games. 14 points in 12 games, 10 points in 10 games. that is 46 points in 47 games. Daniel has 44 points in 47 games. both are just under a point a game the last 3yrs. There probably not that many players that have just under a point a game in the playoff the last 3yrs

also look at the defense pairing they played against this year. keith/seabrook/chara/sedeinberg/Weber/suter. probably the best 3 def pairings in the nhl. The Sedins could of been better. this years playoff the Sedins only showed up against chicago and SJ

The 2 series that we losted to chicago. the sedins were still putting up points. 1st time the canucks lost mainly the canucks could handle chicago speed and they lack grit. the 2nd time the defense was too banged up and again lack grit. The two series canucks won against LA and SJ. The Sedins were a big part of that.

yes the Sedins need to step up but their productions is not as bad as some people think

I see The Sedins leading the canucks to a stanley next year. go canucks go and I am not a homer

Nuck This 09-16-2011 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canucks1982 (Post 36743485)
yes I know the Sedin didn't lead the canucks to the stanley cup yet but I think Sedins get too much bashing from fans about their playoff stats. Overall the last 3yrs. The Sedins production are not great but they are pretty good

last 3 yrs. henrik had 22 points in 25 games. 14 points in 12 games, 10 points in 10 games. that is 46 points in 47 games. Daniel has 44 points in 47 games. both are just under a point a game the last 3yrs. There probably not that many players that have just under a point a game in the playoff the last 3yrs

also look at the defense pairing they played against this year. keith/seabrook/chara/sedeinberg/Weber/suter. probably the best 3 def pairings in the nhl. The Sedins could of been better. this years playoff the Sedins only showed up against chicago and SJ

The 2 series that we losted to chicago. the sedins were still putting up points. 1st time the canucks lost mainly the canucks could handle chicago speed and they lack grit. the 2nd time the defense was too banged up and again lack grit. The two series canucks won against LA and SJ. The Sedins were a big part of that.

yes the Sedins need to step up but their productions is not as bad as some people think

I see The Sedins leading the canucks to a stanley next year. go canucks go and I am not a homer

Don't forget the huge O.T winner over Dallas.

timw33 09-16-2011 01:43 AM

They definitely play better when they have some secondary scoring to take the weight off their shoulders. Playing against non-Norris calibre D pairings helps too.

BLAME CANADA* 09-16-2011 02:02 AM

Now compare the regular season numbers of the last 3 season to the playoff numbers... they don't take their game to the next level in the playoffs and we need that if we want to go all the way, imho.

Shorthander 09-16-2011 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaaaBob (Post 36743983)
Now compare the regular season numbers of the last 3 season to the playoff numbers... they don't take their game to the next level in the playoffs and we need that if we want to go all the way, imho.

You can't expect their regular season production to continue into the playoffs where the defense is much more clutch and grab, and the refs put the whistles away.

We just need a better second line. All the greats get shut down in one series or another, its happened to Toews/Crosby/etc., but the rest of their team picks up the slack.

David71 09-16-2011 03:44 AM

they still managed to get a point a game in the playoffs. but they seriously need help from "secondary scoring +depth to ease off the pressure. it would kindly help of they didn't have to face norris caliber trophy dman. but last yr's playoffs was that task for them. facing keith/seabs/weber/chara.

Nachoman AlfieSavage* 09-16-2011 04:40 AM

They need secondary scoring as said by other people.

Also, they need to adapt their game. The cycle doesn't work very well when you're on your ass. They need to work on scoring on the rush, give and goes, tic tac toe plays, and scoring from the high slot/circles.

If they think they can prance around in circles in the d-zone against someone like Chara, we will see what we saw in the Boston series. A Sedin on his ass. They need to adapt their game. Simple as that.

Lucbourdon 09-16-2011 05:44 AM

good is not enough in the playoffs.

You need to be great if you want to win.

They are the best players on our team, look what kesler did, They need to find another level against GOOD defense.

The best series they had was against the sharks who had dreadful defense, while a guy like kesler dominated single handedly against nashville who had arguably the best defense in the nhl last year.

They need to step up, it's a fair and justified criticism.

Verviticus 09-16-2011 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucbourdon (Post 36744987)
good is not enough in the playoffs.

You need to be great if you want to win.

They are the best players on our team, look what kesler did, They need to find another level against GOOD defense.

The best series they had was against the sharks who had dreadful defense, while a guy like kesler dominated single handedly against nashville who had arguably the best defense in the nhl last year.

They need to step up, it's a fair and justified criticism.

Nah, they need to keep on keeping on and do better if they can, otherwise, I'm happy. You should be too.

Outside99* 09-16-2011 08:23 AM

The concept of stepping it up in the playoffs assumes you aren't giving your emotional best during the regular season and are getting an adrenaline boost from the playoffs.

In Henrik and Daniel's case, they're so even keel and level headed that we get to enjoy the same high level of play early in the regular season as we get late in the playoffs. What's wrong with that?

Playoffs is also different hockey, as games progress and playoff rounds progress, what players get away with rises exponentially from the regular season which has the effect of bringing the level of hockey down to the lowest common denominator. Hopefully the league is learning - among other things - that doing so is detrimental to the sport and the business in the long run.

vanwest 09-16-2011 09:51 AM

I'm a big fan of the Sedins.They simply weren't good enough in last year's playoffs. I don't need any stats to tell me that after watching the games. While they weren't the only ones who didn't play well enough they are two of the leaders on this team. We need them to step up when it counts if we are to win the cup.

ItsAllPartOfThePlan 09-16-2011 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucbourdon (Post 36744987)
good is not enough in the playoffs.

You need to be great if you want to win.

They are the best players on our team, look what kesler did, They need to find another level against GOOD defense.

The best series they had was against the sharks who had dreadful defense, while a guy like kesler dominated single handedly against nashville who had arguably the best defense in the nhl last year.

They need to step up, it's a fair and justified criticism.

Wait what? Kesler hasn't done enough to put him over the Sedins. If the Sharks had such a crap defense, why didn't Kesler dominate that series as well?

Both the Sedins and Kesler still have more to give imo.

vanwest 09-16-2011 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan (Post 36750573)
Wait what? Kesler hasn't done enough to put him over the Sedins. If the Sharks had such a crap defense, why didn't Kesler dominate that series as well?

Both the Sedins and Kesler still have more to give imo.

Kesler carried the team on his back through Nashville. One of the more dominant performances I've seen. He was clearly playing injured in part of San Jose and in the finals.

FakeKidPoker* 09-16-2011 11:38 AM

With the Sedins. (and Kesler too but this topic is abotu the Sedins)

It's pretty much the same as Naslund.

In his prime he'd put up a PPG in the playoffs but just couldn't get it to the next level (though in Naslund's defence he didn't have nearly as much support as the Twins)

BC Ben 09-16-2011 11:45 AM

The Sedins need to keep their steady level of play at the very least and show up big in a series or a few key games... Its the other guys that need to become heroes - we lacked a Brad Marchand in the Finals.

This is our year!!

Biggest Canuck Fan 09-16-2011 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanwest (Post 36750675)
Kesler carried the team on his back through Nashville. One of the more dominant performances I've seen. He was clearly playing injured in part of San Jose and in the finals.

Kesler was injured in game 5, not the previous 4 games, where the Sharks were definitely not worried about the Sedin's, but about kesler because of his Nashville performance.

It is a team game, and one that this team has almost done. They will do it this season as long as they are relatively healthy.

ItsAllPartOfThePlan 09-16-2011 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanwest (Post 36750675)
Kesler carried the team on his back through Nashville. One of the more dominant performances I've seen. He was clearly playing injured in part of San Jose and in the finals.

As mentioned, Kesler got injured near the end of the last game. He had not done anything of note offensively in that series. Ironically, he scored the tying goal in game 5 after he got injured.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan (Post 36752441)
Kesler was injured in game 5, not the previous 4 games, where the Sharks were definitely not worried about the Sedin's, but about kesler because of his Nashville performance.

It is a team game, and one that this team has almost done. They will do it this season as long as they are relatively healthy.


I'm pretty sure the Sharks had to key on the Sedins after Hank scored the winner in game 1 and then blew them out in game 2

Nachoman AlfieSavage* 09-16-2011 12:46 PM

Am I the only one who sees a fundamental problem with the Sedins game relative to playoff hockey? In particular teams with very strong defense core (ala nashville and boston)?

They aren't fast players who rely on gaining the zone, getting deep and cycling the puck from the corners. Does anyone else not see a fundamental problem in this? That is basically their ENTIRE game, and in the playoffs, you just get knocked on your ass. Unless you are incredibly fast, that down low cycle game doesn't jive against the Charas and Webers of the league.

Sedins need to work on scoring from the rush, or the high cycle. Using the defense to cycle high around the circles, then open something up to move down low. But mainly, they need to work on their rush plays. Scoring from the high slot or top of the circles, and running more give and goes and tic tac toe plays on the fly.

I hate to be so critical, but I don't think the Sedins struggles were cognitive, bad luck, or injuries (though hank was indeed injured). I believe the core of their struggles is that their bread and butter cycle from the corner game simply doesn't work in the playoffs against top defensive teams. I don't think it ever will.

They need to expand upon their game, or I don't see us getting past strong defensive teams. Assuming of course Kesler doesn't use a cheat and set all his stats to 99 like he did against Nashville. You need your top line to produce to win a cup.

vanwest 09-16-2011 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan (Post 36752441)
Kesler was injured in game 5, not the previous 4 games, where the Sharks were definitely not worried about the Sedin's, but about kesler because of his Nashville performance.

It is a team game, and one that this team has almost done. They will do it this season as long as they are relatively healthy.

I agree it's a team game. I also agree that the Sedins were not the whole problem. I'll give Kesler a bit of a pass because in my view he was the best player on any team going into the San Jose series and played with far inferior linemates than the Sedins. Kesler was simply on another level for the Nashville series. I'm not surprised that he could not maintain that. I'm a huge fan of the Sedins but I see no problem with acknowledging that they played poorly throughout many parts of the playoffs. They need to be a lot better. I'm confident that they can be.

vadim sharifijanov 09-16-2011 01:26 PM

i don't want to take anything away from kesler's nashville series, which was up there with mclean, bure, and luongo as one of the greatest individual series i've ever seen from a canuck.

but nashville had a paper thin defense after their norris pairing, and who did weber and suter spend most of their TOI out against? doesn't make kesler's performance any worse, but it does explain the sedins' lower than usual production.

Shareefruck 09-16-2011 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaaaBob (Post 36743983)
Now compare the regular season numbers of the last 3 season to the playoff numbers... they don't take their game to the next level in the playoffs and we need that if we want to go all the way, imho.

That's crazy. Unless you're Crosby, you can't expect top-line scorers who get 100 points a season to replicate those numbers in the playoffs.

I just want them to be able to fight through adversity better and do a better job of breaking through when we need them to and play a better all-around game. Their point totals in the playoffs haven't been the problem.

vanwest 09-16-2011 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shareefruck (Post 36754765)
That's crazy. Unless you're Crosby, you can't expect top-line scorers who get 100 points a season to replicate those numbers in the playoffs.

I just want them to be able to fight through adversity better and do a better job of breaking through when we need them to and play a better all-around game. Their point totals in the playoffs haven't been the problem.

I think that's a pretty fair summary of my views too. In the Boston series I think that we should have expected at least some powerplay goals from the twins. I can understand that scoring at full strength against Chara/Seidenberg is a difficult thing.

Biggest Canuck Fan 09-16-2011 02:26 PM

On thing I will say, is both Daniel and Henrik have great shots and they consistently put the puck down along the ice, very rarely lifting it... yet some of their best playoff goals are when they just shoot the puck and pick spots.

In the final they were looking for the pass or pretty play way too often.

They need to have a score the goal mentality, not a generate a shot mentality. Their pressure is built off the other team getting on it's heals.

Watch game 2 of the finals again. Best performance by the club. Should've been way more than 3-2 in OT. Vancouver had sooooo many chances and Thomas stood on his head.

BLAME CANADA* 09-16-2011 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shareefruck (Post 36754765)
That's crazy. Unless you're Crosby, you can't expect top-line scorers who get 100 points a season to replicate those numbers in the playoffs.

I just want them to be able to fight through adversity better and do a better job of breaking through when we need them to and play a better all-around game. Their point totals in the playoffs haven't been the problem.

Well their playoff stats show not even a point per game and reg season well over a point per game I'd expect better from them than what we've seen. Their too easily stopped in the playoffs. Players like Getz, Perry, Datz, Zetterberg, Malkin all rise their game in the playoffs, Sedin haven't. When Toews lead his team to the cup he was well over a point per game as well as Kane and Sharp was playing at a point per game. Staal was over ppg when he lead his team to a cup, most teams who win the cup have their top players rise their game not lower it, not that I expect them to play at the 100 point pace but they should be playing over a point per game.

I like the Twins but there is some sugar coating in this thread. Sedins although aren't playoff chokers don't rise their game or even come close to being the regular season players they are... they go from top players in the NHL in the regular season to good players in the playoffs, we need them to be more.

Their point totals haven't been a problem?.... really? so you ok with 3 points from them, our top players, in the SCF?.... Wasn't Hank scoreless in something like 14 or 15 playoff games? Also if I remember right didn't the Twins score most of their points on the PP and when that PP went cold so did the Twins and our offence. If the Sedin were playing as their talent indicates from their regular season and Luongo could show up that SCF shouldn't have made it to game 7, our top players need to be much more consistent.

Shareefruck 09-16-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScubaaaBob (Post 36756993)
Well their playoff stats show not even a point per game and reg season well over a point per game I'd expect better from them than what we've seen. Their too easily stopped in the playoffs. Players like Getz, Perry, Datz, Zetterberg, Malkin all rise their game in the playoffs, Sedin haven't. When Toews lead his team to the cup he was well over a point per game as well as Kane and Sharp was playing at a point per game. Staal was over ppg when he lead his team to a cup, most teams who win the cup have their top players rise their game not lower it, not that I expect them to play at the 100 point pace but they should be playing over a point per game.

I like the Twins but there is some sugar coating in this thread. Sedins although aren't playoff chokers don't rise their game or even come close to being the regular season players they are... they go from top players in the NHL in the regular season to good players in the playoffs, we need them to be more.

Their point totals haven't been a problem?.... really? so you ok with 3 points from them, our top players, in the SCF?.... Wasn't Hank scoreless in something like 14 or 15 playoff games? Also if I remember right didn't the Twins score most of their points on the PP and when that PP went cold so did the Twins and our offence. If the Sedin were playing as their talent indicates from their regular season and Luongo could show up that SCF shouldn't have made it to game 7, our top players need to be much more consistent.

When I mentioned point totals not being the problem, I didn't mean on a game-to-game basis, I was just reacting to the guy complaining about their year-end playoff-point totals (and to the OP defending this as if that were the knock against them). Had they not gotten all their points in the San Jose series and did ****-all in the other ones, I personally would be okay with the point-totals they ended up with. Obviously they didn't produce enough in the finals. I agree that HOW and WHEN they're getting their points (or rather, how they aren't getting them) is the problem (like what you said in your last paragraph).

Like I said, I'm not defending the Sedins' level of play at all-- I think they were awful in the playoffs. But to "expect" a conn-smythe performance out of each of them, scoring nearly a 100-point pace in the playoffs is unreasonable. They had an awful playoff for every reason other than the offensive numbers they ended up with.


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