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03-21-2004, 01:18 AM
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
I've watched DUBE play in the Q, at The WJC, at Ranger Camp, in Hartford, and in limited time with the team.
Well then if you were there you obviously saw him make the team as a 19 year old correct? You saw Ferraro drill him with a cross check and Dube get up and nail him right back. You saw Dube going into the slot and getting hit by a young Eric Cairns, and then getting right back up.
At the memrial you had to have seen him geting sticked in the mouth and proceed to play an excellent game against a NON-qmjhl and play well enough to win and be the tournament mvp.
And if you saw him with the team then you obviously remember what kind of shifts he got and the amount of icetime. Not specific amount but enough to know that there was no way humanly possible he was gonna score.
He had an average season with Hartford. For a kid whose upside was base in pure offensive talent, his numbers were very average. When pressured or repeatedly checked, he'd disappear. He didn't show the ability to bounce back from a hit. He Played horribly in the AHL playoffs.
And he also scored nearly a point per game. So what exactly did some of the other guys prove? Or Marc Savard for that matter who they knew even then was perhaps the most disliked player on the team. Or when the game was on the line it was Dube who was put out there because Savard was too unreliable at the time to be out there.
The common thought, from what I know - and it may be wrong - was that the decision was made that Murray needed more seasoning. He displayed the skills that the Rangers hoped he would. Ortmeyer was considered to be more NHL ready after a very short stint in Hartford. He was older, and more mature in development, and was thought to be able to handle playing limited minutes. They wanted Murray to get some time and develop. This is my understanding.
Ah yes, but they are indeed both getting NHL icetime are they not?
Yeah see that was something that was not afforded the other two example's were looking at here.
Also they Murray was sent straight down to the AHL and he was coached in the offseason on how to rehab his injury. They didn't leave him alone to do it. Because they finally understand the value of doing that.
Forgive me if I misunderstood your point here: But by this logic - every pick who doesn't develop is the fault of the organization. Picks don't pan out. More often then not. With many players, the fact that they will not pan out is not evident until 2-3-4 years after being drafted. This was the case with DUBE, after two disappointing seasons in Hartford. So, during the years of 1995-1998 (I'm estimating a time frame here), as his development stalled, so did his worth to other teams. A once bright prospect no longer had value.
Nope. You don't hear me mentioning Lundmark here or guys like Mike Martin or Wes Jarvis. Why? Because they have been given a shot. Something that this team WAS NOT prepared to do during those days. Despite scoring and being inconsistent in hartford, lundmark is getting a chance with first line linemates now. Did you see such a sink orswim time for Dube or Malhotra. No you didn't and THAT is why there is an issue over those players. This team gave Chad Wiseman icetime for pity's sake.
Dube no longer had value because they wasted a half year with him as 19 year old and then wasted a year by giving him bad advice on how to make the team.
I guess to prove that, i'll ask this. Show me another team whe kept two different 19 year olds on their roster only to sit and watch the games? There were none. Ya know why? Because that's a sure fire recipe to ruin a prospect. The Rangers did it two, count em, two times. Two totally different players, two totally different leagues, two totally different seasons.
Happens once, okay I'll buy it. Happens twice, we've got a warning sign.
If you want to continue this conversation without the insults, I'd be more then happy to do so.
Well for the first time today you're at least bringing a reasoning to the table. It took me lighting a fire to get any smoke out of you. Now that you've actually answered and given some reasoning we can get somewhere with this.
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