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01-08-2008, 12:16 PM
  #101
DutchShamrock
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Yeah, let's stay on topic. Malik sucks. Let's have 5 more threads this week saying Malik sucks. Let's stay on topic people.
I didn't start this or the other 4 Malik threads, but go through any of them and anybody can find you slamming anti-Malik people by bringing up Prucha, Callahan, Sather, Renney, Jagr or anyone besides Malik. You hardly ever debate Malik himself. You distract everyone with rhetoric and supposed logic like, "if Sather is doing a bad job then you can't boo Malik until you boo him". No, players do not have to be judged relative to the rest of the team or organization. Then can be judged in a bubble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Maybe you missed the point where I clearly wrote that if these guys turn out to be good then he will have done a good job. hmmmmmm.

Sather was saved from his own stupidity by the lockout. You make it seem like he had some sort of revelation about how to manage. He had no choice. He was no longer able to be downright stupid because of the confines of the cap.

When he couldn't be the same kind of stupid in Edmonton he was a horrendous GM for a decade. Sather is one of the best myths in the game. He stepped in **** when Gretzky and Messier dropped in his lap. The two greatest players ever together on a team and he won as a coach with them. Before coming to NY he had exactly one good draft in his entire NHL career as a GM.
And maybe you missed the part where I utterly destroyed your weak logic. Maybe Sather's moves will pan out an he'll be judged as a sufficient GM for NYR. That's irrelevant to the debate right now. What's relevant is you feel like Sather got a pass for his poor performances unlike Malik. My point is he got judged and judged harshly for his crappy GMing prior to the lockout. I don't care how he turned the corner, the point is Malik is getting beat up by the fans just like Sather did. If Renney handcuffs Malik and it somehow turns him into a decent defenseman the fans won't care... they'll stop booing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
This last section is utter nonsense. To say that Malik doesn't try is just plain stupid unless you are saying that Sather, Renney and all of the Rangers are blathering idiots who can't see what you think you see.
I didn't say he doesn't try, I said he doesn't try his hardest. Girardi battles. He battles to stay in the play if he gets beat, he doesn't allow people to waltz around him. He might lose the 1 on 1, but there is a priced paid by the opposition to get there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Little guys always look like they are trying because their legs have to churn to gain as much ice as larger players do with less strides. This is just plain physics.

If Giradi is playing much better than Malik this year why is his +/- so much worse? The excuse for these stats used to be that Malik is saved by playing with Jagr. What is the reasoning now?

This notion that Malik commits multiple mortal sins, if true, would be evident in statistics. Numbers just don't lie. People's perceptions can be off but numbers are facts. Why isn't he a huge minus if he is playing the way you say?

Girardi is given a pass for two reasons. He is young and he has added an offensive side to his game. He will be a better defenseman than Malik. Right now he just isn't playing well no matter how much you prefer his style over Malik's.
Just because he's a plus doesn't mean he doesn't turn the puck over with regularity. Turning the puck over doesn't always result in a goal against. Not everything is explained by your precious stats. There are stories between the numbers, stories you ignore because they don't serve your point. Just because Malik has a better +-than somebody doesn't mean his passing is safer or better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Would I rather have Girardi than Malik? Of course. Do I think that Malik is as bad as you? No. It is for this reasoning that you and a few others have a problem with what I post on this topic. I'm sorry that I can't always follow groupthink. I have a different opinion than you. Can you imagine that? I don't feel the need to pile on when I think it is undeserved. Blasphemy.

I accept that there will be endless threads bashing Malik. You're going to have to accept that not everyone has to join these threads with hearty endorsements of the mob idea. I am allowed to have a contrary opinion.

Numbers are facts. Observations are opinions. I will continue to voice my opinions until the Mods decide otherwise. Whether you feel my points are tangential is meaningless to me.
You know what, up yours. I could care less what you think. I don't bash you for liking Malik, you're just taking low blows here to give your points validity. I don't beat people into submission, I debate the points. You want to attack me, well I'm done glossing over that, I'm bringing it back to you. Make me out to be some kind of a fascist or narrowminded fool because you out think me on some silly message board.

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