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03-01-2008, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
I agree totally with the flaw of looking at past NHLers and trying to assess them. There are ATD and ML drafted players I scoff at and have serious doubts about.

You would have seen the later half of his nearly 900 game NHL career, these years:

1971-72 Penguins 17 assists, 212 PIM
1972-73 Penguins 17 assists, 179 PIM
1974-75 Red Wings 13 assists, 238 PIM
1975-76 Red Wings 18 assists, 322 PIM
1976-77 Capitals 14 assists, 91 PIM
1977-78 Capitals 11 assists, 167 PIM

Those stats show he was not a fringe player later in his career, except if by fringe you mean role player, and you have shown you don't appreciate dirty play.

I still say by all indications he'd make a good #6/#7 defenseman on a ML draft team. Not saying he'd play on the penalty kill or take a regular shift against the opposition's top line. But his work ethic and toughness alone, not to mention his PIMs, does come in handy in an all-time context.

Yes, in today's NHL his tactics might not pass mustard, but in the 60s and 70s they were useful.
IT's really not worth the argument. So in a watered down expansion NHL, he hung on with some crappy teams, got a few assists and a lot of penalty minutes. Sounds like a resident goon that got some playing minutes. If thats what you value, good luck. If he hadn't hacked & slashed Hull for those 4 games back in the 60's nobody would remember him. he would be like all the other goons that were around in those days.

Van, you are wasting your energy promoting this guy. I am not going to waste anymore of my time on it. I have made my point.

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