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08-11-2008, 10:31 AM
Dark Shadows
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Originally Posted by bilros View Post
You yourself said he was unnoticeable, why are we even arguing if you basically agree with me.

The selke last last 15 years have been awarded to a good 2-way player with alot of points points and a good +/-, the whole award is pathetic since it has nothing to with who the best defensive shutdown forward is. Sakic getting a nomination could just aswell happen to 50 other guys, most of the focussing alot more on defence than he ever did.

I said Sakic got the stats without visibly dominating, he was infact unnoticeable.

The best players takes over and dictate how the game is played, when they enter the rink. Sakic didn't, and you know it.
No actually, I am showing how Sakic dominated the game without being flashy or noticeable like Forsberg. And yes, he did dominate.

And yes, he dictated the game. Opposing teams put their top Defenders on Sakic just as much as they did Forsberg. More if you count that Sakic played on average 2-3 more minutes a game than Forsberg(More 1st line minutes). Sakic makes people on opposing teams nervous every time he is on the ice. You don't get top 10 in points 10 times(top five 5 times) while being solid defensively by NOT dominating.

Lidstrom dominates the Defensive zone without being flashy, yet to you, he gets a free pass because he is Swedish.

Whatever you think of the Selke voting, or the veracity of the trophy, Sakic was a better defensive forward than Forsberg. I posted the stats already. Sakic blocked more shots(Around double Forsberg's total blocked shots on average, even on his Hart year playing 15 less games), Sakic has far less giveaways, and Sakic has more takeaways + a better faceoff percentage. All this while almost always matching or bettering Forsberg in points.

Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
I missed the comment you quoted since like most I have Bilros on the ignore, but I couldnt help but notice he said Sakic didnt dominate games but Bure did.

Bure skated figure 8's in the neutral zone waiting for a breakout pass. On a good year maybe he gets you 60 goals while being a liability every second he's on the ice.

Being quietly effective and winning games without getting on the highlight reel is bad unless you're Swedish.
Yep. Next coming is "Alfredsson was more dominant than Sakic" which would be a humongous joke.

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