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Brooks: Elias Must Go...
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11-16-2008, 08:15 PM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edison, NJ
Originally Posted by
Come on, are we really going to use this stat to try to defend Patrik Elias?
This is exactly along the subjective lines of the plus/minus argument: If a player you are defending has a decent + rating, be sure to bring it up as a positive. But if this same player has a poor negaitive rating, totally marginalize it and use the "oh but the plus/minus stat is not always indicative of what happens on the ice" excuse:
It's shots on net. It's not subjective at all. It's a countable stat. Like goals, assists, penalty minutes, etc. You either have taken a shot on net or you didn't. It's not subjective at all and you really can't marginalize it. If a player isn't scoring, but they are getting shots on net, then it's clear that the player is
to score. This is part of why Brooks' argument falls flat: he assumes no points = no contribution; but that's not true at all. That Elias is among the top players in the league in putting pucks on net is indictive that he's getting opportunities to score and he's taking advantage of them. Scoring forwards who have become useless don't do that.
Patrik Elias was given this huge contract to play the way did in the early 2000's and especially that 4 month period from January through February 2006.
This is udisputable
am disputing this. You fail to recognize his proclivity to scoring clutch goals, his ability on the ice to try and go for the big play when others would just dump the puck into the corners, and that even when he is having a poor season under his standards, he still leads the team in scoring.
Based on what was just said above, either you accept the fact that Elias has been absolutely underperforming....or you deny this fact and blame everyting/everybody else, from line changes, coaching, or whatever is the flavor of the week excuse.
It's not either/or, Muttley. That's why I keep bringing up the shots on net number. It's conclusive proof that Elias is at the least attempting what he needs to do on offense, and does so regularly. However, hockey is a team sport and as result how you're coached (e.g. see how Sutter didn't put Gionta in the slot at all last season despite his past success there), who your linemates are, and what the chemistry is there are all serious factors to how a player performs. To say otherwise shows a misunderstanding of the sport of hockey.
Then again, I'm not surprised - you think a player that manages to get just under an average of 4 shots on net per game is invisible. Maybe a ghost scored those two goals last night?
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