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09-06-2004, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NYI
i don't have quotes or anything but here is how the Rangers make money. Dolan owns %100 of MSG, Dolan owns 100% of the MSG network and Dolan owns the Rangers. He is triple dipping into the team. While some teams might be lucky to get 50% of the gates at any hockey game, dolan gets 100% of the gates as well as food revenue(because he owns the arena and the team). If Dolan only owned the Rangers, sure it would be a losing proposition, but you figure he cleans in roughly 2 million+ a game when all is said in done with him owning both the team and arena(80 million over a season).
I can only objectively work with numbers I know, I can take some fair guesses but that's what they are. But I will try here.

I'm guessing you mean the Knicks when you speak of triple dipping. Heck they can dip into Cablevision also and a half dozen other things and so can a bunch of owners. Like all teams they contract out for the things like concessions so they take a percentage or a flat fee, by contrast we have no idea if the managing company of the building takes anything like Smg takes from the Islanders.

You have to think some company takes something for services.

Originally Posted by NYI
When he is doing his financial records, he probably only claims a small amount(let's say way less then the average team) of the gates at MSG and can write the team as a loss.
As Charles Wang has done with his 23 million dollar loss in 2003 as he reported to the Times when Forbes looked at the books.

Originally Posted by NYI
The same can be said about his local TV coverage. Dolan gets 100% of that money as well(every cent that advertisers pay go into dolan's pocket as well as every penny that cable companies pay him to have his service which show the Rangers), while most other teams can only claim a percentage.

Doing very rough estiments, Dolan makes roughly $80 in ticket revnues, 40 million for showing Ranegr games on MSG network and 10 million from the league contracts.
Were also really not sure what deals have been agreed to regarding the Fox/Msg merger that turned them into one sports entity several years ago. Rupert Murdoch get's a large percentage of revenue in this, this is not a James Dolan's 100 percent profit as you indicate.

Here are the television figures going into last season, what each team get's from the outside contracts.

Annual total revenue per team from national TV rights: about $6 million, not including local TV money.

The New York Rangers are estimated to pull in $25 million per year from local rights. So do the Boston Bruins. Toronto gets $23 million. Montreal gets $16 million. The Dallas Stars get big bucks in local TV revenue thanks to owner Tom Hicks' 15-year, $550 million deal with Fox Sports to broadcast both the Stars and Texas Rangers baseball games on a local and regional level. But not every NHL team pulls in big dollars from local TV. Some of the smaller market teams in the U.S. pull in less a $1 million per year from local broadcast rights.

Let's put the Rangers at 31 million, the Islanders at 20 million, Msg has to pay the Islanders 13 million for their television rights until 2030, and they have to pay the Devils.

I think the two million figure per game is very generous on your part because that is the estimated figure for Knicks playoff games and they seat more than hockey.

Charles Wang charges more than Dolan for tickets and during the blizzard game it was estimated he would lose a half a million dollars for playing a game in front of 3,000 fans in a blizzard as opposed to a regular Saturday attendance which was usually near capacity.

I guess your talking about 10 mil per team for merchandising from the NHL. No idea.

Originally Posted by NYI
That's a total of 130 million in revenue. The price he pays for his team is 70 million in contracts, 30 million in operating expenses. So when all is said and done the Rangers make him a decent profit(when you look at the 3 businesses he owns). If Dolan didn't own MSG or the MSG network, the Rangers would be big money losers.
I came up with 60 million for tickets, 31 for television, 10 million from the NHL and I will go all out and ignore the reports in the previous posting and add another 20 million for anything else. Let's not even talk rent or propery taxes on the building.

121 million.

Rangers reported payroll with buyouts, insurance for percentages of contracts for injured players approached a high payroll of 94 million dollars. The Islanders get at least 13 million from Msg, they have to pay the Devils for local broadcasts rights. You can bet Murdoch get's 10-15 million for the merger fees. And let's throw in ten million for other costs.

Industry reports are Msg Network is taking big losses. I cannot put a figure on that plus other basic costs to running a team, travel, staff, team facilities but I'm not including that here at all.

Hard to see a tangible profit in this. If they borrow from other places to sustain their payroll advantage it is not in the best interest of the league but they have the right to do so.

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