Round 2, Vote 6 (2009 update)
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09-01-2009, 10:35 AM
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Originally Posted by
My points which you overlook. Benedict in 1915 at age 22 was the same age as Terry Sawchuk in 1952, the remaining Senators compared favourably to the Red Wings -Howe -23, Kelly-24, Delvecchio-19, M.Pronovost -21, Ted Lindsay - 26, Abel would be the equivalent of Art Ross. So getting blown-out in three games like the Senators were.
Broadbent, Darragh, and Ross compare favorably to Howe, Kelly, Delvecchio, Abel, and Lindsay?
In 1916 virtually the same Vancouver team was a .500 team in the PCHA and did not qualify for the SC final. The team that beat them - Portland did so with fewer HHOFers than Ottawa, nor did Portland have a HHOF caliber goalie.
Goes to show you how valuable Nighbor was.
But I can't wait to hear from you next round about how bad he sucked, too. Because there were no great players back then, right? Everyone just blended into ont big ball of mediocrity. No one stood out. Not Taylor, not Lalonde, not Benedict, not Nighbor, right?
You may be able to make a case that the PCHA sandbagged the NHA in 1915 BUT you cannot ignore a goalie giving up 26 goals in 3 games.
No one's ignoring it. He was brutal, the team was brutal. What you're ignoring is that this doesn't make him any different from any other top-10 goalie, save Dryden.
Nor can you ignore Clint Benedict's performance in the 1919 NHL final where he gave up 26 goals in 5 games against the Canadiens after giving up 53 goals during the 18 game regular season. Likewise in 1922 when Ottawa outplayed Toronto but Roach outplayed Benedict who by accounts had a weak first game in Toronto.
Let me repeat: What you're ignoring is that this doesn't make him any different from any other top-10 goalie, save Dryden.
And: This series is a wonderful case of what happens to a team when they lose Nighbor. But, you know, don't say anything about that next round.
Yes some playoffs his GAA improved, others it skyrocketed. Goaltenders that lack consistency should be considered accordingly.
By that standard, every single top goalie ever, lacked consistency. What is your point?
So Ottawa had 8 out of 18 HHOFers in the NHL in 1923 or 44.4%. Other dynasty teams never had such a high percentage of HHOFers relative to the rest of the league.Clint Benedict was the goalie on the best team and his wins reflect team wins as opposed to his brilliance.
Like I just explained to you, of course no other team had 44% of the hall of famers at one time. The league has usually had between 6 and 30 teams!
Dryden, Plante, Roy, and Brodeur have all been the goalie on the best team, too. I guess their wins reflect team brilliance as well.
Maroons forwards who played defense. Only happens with forwards who are very responsible defensively.
Well, you got us there!!!
A defense corps led by Dunc Munro, plus two forwards who LATER played defense = an outstanding team! Benedict had nothing to do with their success.
Before the mask it was fairly common for goalies to be hit in the face by shots. Sawchuk and Plante to name a couple. Benedict did not retire after the incidents you related rather he played in the minors the next season..
But he retired from the NHL, didn't he?
Benedict left voluntarily that season and who would hold it against him if he didn't? HE WAS 38!
Originally Posted by
Thank you for filling in the additional years, thereby clearly illustrating that Clint Benedict lacked consistency. Which definitely should be considered when reviewing his career.
So by illustrating that sometimes a goalie will let in more or less goals in different 10-14 game stretches illustrates inconsistency? BRILLIANT!
Clint Benedict dropping to the ice. Not a style but against the rules of the day. So the NHL made a choice between penalizing only him or letting everyone do it.
Small sample size. That was the sample size as determined by the rules. He gets credit for double shutouts against Toronto in the NHL final in 1921, two game total goals and he loses credit of r1915 and 1919. Which again raises the consistency issue which cannot be avoided.
just because a goalie doesn't win the Stanley Cup every year, doesn't mean he is inconsistent.
Product of his team. !916-1918 the Senators were not as strong with fewer HHOFers than 1920-23. Did Benedict become the difference maker? No. When the team improved - 7 - 8, HHOFers between 1920-23 his stats improved yet he stumbled in 1922.
So when the team got some better players, the team did better?
1924. Benedict was moved to the Maroons after the second place Canadiens upset the first place Senators in the NHL final 5 - 2 two game total goals. The 1924-25 Senators featured Alec Connell in goal, a fairly good goalie but the team was somewhat older and facing financial problems.
Almost every great goalie has seen his team (or himself) decide to part ways following a disappointing season (or finish to the season) - as usual, what is your point?
Plante's results in 1972 and 1973 were not the result of a rule change. Benedict's results during the 1929-30 season are ther result of a rule change. Also the injury happened in 1930 after the forward pass rule had been modified as scoring was getting out of hand. Still his pre injury numbers reflect a GAA that showed that Benedict was having problems adapting. The Maroons were a legit contender that season as evidenced by the success Flat Walsh had replacing Benedict.
Who cares what happened when he was 38?? Dryden, Roy, and Tretiak did not even play until 38 and Brodeur, to date, has not either. What on earth is your point?
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