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12-01-2009, 10:58 PM
  #94
Leafs Forever
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Steve Payne-Mike Richards-Allan "Scotty" Davidson vs Gaye Stewart-Pit Martin-Jimmy Peters

Steve Payne vs Gaye Stewart

Offensively, no contest. Steve Payne never placed top-10 in any major offensive category; Stewart has two top-5 in points (2nd and 4th), a league leading in goals as well as a bunch of other good goalscoring finishes, and another 6th in assists. No era adjustment makes up that gap. Payne had one great playoff, but did little else otherwise. The problem is, offense might be Payne's forte.

Stewart also has an intangible edge as well I think, mainly off of this quote on Payne:

Quote:
Steve, who was at times lazy defensively, was never a great physical player despite his size.
Doesn't seem like Payne was a good intangible. Although we know little on Stewart in this regard, here's quotes that suggest some grit;

Quote:
The following season, he got off to a great start and made a big hit with the fans because of his aggressive play-Joe Pelletier
Quote:
He was a fine stickhandler, aggressive but clean in his play and perhaps the best skater of his day.-Joe Pelletier
Not stellar, but not something you could mark him down for like Payne. Edge Stewart

Pit Martin vs Mike Richards

I don't know if Mike Richards is worthy of an ATD role yet at 4 full years under his belt, one with some injury troubles. And outside of his lasty ear, I don't know of anyother years where he was a standout defensively.

Pit Martin's quotes:

Quote:
Although only 5'8" and 165 pounds, the rugged two-way forward proved that he could leave his mark in the NHL by playing hard every shift of every game.-LOH
Quote:
The powerful and agile skater was traded from the Red Wings to the Boston Bruins midway through the 1965-66 season, where he spent a season and a half. He then moved to the Chicago Blackhawks in 1967 where he played another 11 years. He eventually won over Chicago fans with is speedy attack and insistent digging for loose pucks in the corners.-Joe Pelletier
Quote:
As much as his playmaking, he was known for his heart. In 1969, when the Blackhawks missed the playoffs, he called out his team, saying that only three players on the team “wear their uniforms with any desire to win.”-wayne Scanalan
Pretty good all-around ability.

As far as the intangible battle goes- I'll throw this out there- we've discussed this with toughness at LeafsCentral, and it is a good question. Why don't we consider toughness of modern players in the ATD the same as we do offense? If a guy is great offensively for 4 years vs a guy who is great offensively for 10, we say the guy who was great in 10 better. Why don't we tend to do that for toughness, and perhaps even defensive ability too? Instead it seems they get an auto-transfer for the most part. This also goes for when a guy's peak wasn't as great; there are a numer of forwards drafted ahead of Ovechkin who don't have the peak of offense he does, but we consider are better offensively because they were good/great for longer. Why don't we do the same for intangibles?

At any rate, MArtin should get this on offense alone, despite Richards great shorthanded ability. Richards has one top-20 in points while Martin has 3 top 15's and two top-10's in assists. Even if Richards has an intangible edge (which I don't think eh does for Martin's much greater longevity), I think Martin is the better here.

Allan Scotty Davidson vs Jimmy Peters

Aaa yes, the two season wonder. Having two guys with such very short records isn't a good idea on any line, but I disgress.

I'll give Davidson the offensive advantage because Peters doesn't have much of an offensive trackrecord himself, and Davidson was better in his short record. But Peters gets a huge intangible edge. We know Davidson backchecked responsibly, but it doesn't suggest he was great defensively. Peters, on the other hand?

Quote:
During the finals of his first big-league season, him and his defensive corps were instrumental in shutting down the Bruins' Kraut Line of Schmidt, Bauer, and Dumart. The end result was a Stanley Cup victory for the Habs.-LOH
Quote:
The Max Bentley-Bill Mosienko-Doug Bentley trio again squared off against *******, ***** ***********, and Jimmy Peters of the Canadiens, and figured no more prominently than in the previous game-NY Times
And again assaumbly, better for much longer. Although Davidson appears to have PIMs, not much is said on his toughness to my knowledge. Peters, on the other hand..

Quote:
Hewas a scrappy winger who was known as a "Fighting Irishman" in the company of the Flying Frenchmen of Quebec.-LOH
Seems pretty gritty.

I think the defensive edge gives Peters a win here, and my fourth line a pretty seems to have a pretty signifigant edge. Your fourth line is questionable offensively, has two very short career guys carrying the load intangible-wise and another who seems somewhat poor in that department..what is this line supposed to do? Seems to me like a liability whenever it's on the ice.

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