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01-07-2005, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
One point that seems to be escaping some is this happened a number of times under the old CBA.

So the league may attempt to close this loop-hole, but that isn't certain and there may be legal reasons why they cannot.

So Carter and others in a similar situation becoming UFA would not be a new scenario.

Leafs likely have some prospects who are in the same boat, just not as high profile.

Is Mitchell or Sagat signed? If not change the name Carter to Mitchell and what is your take on this?

Seems to me some are just posting comments because they are afraid Messenger is correct and you're worried it just might happen.
Solid Points

The old CBA was unchallenged in courts as to the ability of unsigned prospects to either re-enter the draft or become UFA at age 20 if they could not come to contract agreement with the current team that drafted them...

The point of that is the old collective bargaining agreement was written to keep both sides honest and give both sides opportunity ....

Without that current clause in place PROSPECTS would be at the mercy of the drafting team .. The team that drafted them could offer them 5 bucks a week as a Salary and the prospect would have no course of action other than not accept it, or take whatever the NHL offered in order to earn a living at their profession.

His rights would be owned by the drafting team until he turned 31 under the current agreement.. and as such the NHL team is not permitting him from earning a honest living, because 29 other teams would pay him more to play for them, and a Hockey player is his chosen profession as of now, and like all other professions has the right to make choices as to employment and employer.

If they (prospects) took the team to court that would be a clear cut no brainer decision on the outcome ... Any NEW provision in a NEW CBA that binds a players rights to a team without opportunity would be challenged in a heart beat in courts, particularly rules that are just temporary .. If the league makes a 1 time provision that binds Carter to Philly due to the Lockout situation and then allows the next year 2004 draft class the rights of the old agreement..because as I stated above this is a COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT (CBA) and as such has to have agreed upon rights on both sides not just one, which any new clause would clearly not have. The NHLPA would have a say in any provision or clause that owners wanted to included, and its not in its best interest to agree to any provision since the old long time on going system was fine on both sides, and the impact on the owners side is minimal to start with..

The rule is different for Euro drafted players in that their rights are owned without that deadline of 2 years in place, because North America does not owe European born players the right to earn a living in North America, since it can't force them to leave their own countries unless they choose to, and they can earn a living playing in their own countries Hockey leagues if the want to.

Martin Sagat when drafted was playing in Europe at the time and as such is exempt from this situation and remains Leafs property until UFA age currently 31 ... 5th rounder John Mitchell & 9th rounder Shaun Landolt are the only Leaf prospect that fall into this NEEDS TO BE SIGNED by rule ...

Would the Leafs be screaming for a special provisions that could be challenged in courts for these 2 players ??

Many other teams like NJ (Parise, Vrana) , Anaheim (Getzlaf, Perry), etc etc avoided this possibility and as such need no special provison either do 25 other teams ..So the Flyers are in a real minority here, asking for special rules for them and a few other teams SJ (Bernier) Was (Fehr) and Chi (Seabrook) ..and would the world come to an end if these kids were lost by their parent clubs as a casulaty of a LABOUR WAR..

The NHL could simply offer them a Compensation pick in a future draft to the NHL team that loses a player much like it does currently and move on and never look back ... THAT IS YOUR MORE LIKELY PROVISON !!! IMO .. Since Jeff Carter was the #11 th pick in his draft class the NHL could simply give the Flyers the #11th pick in the next entry draft if they lost Carter to UFA .. Currently the CBA gives the team a pick in the second round as compensation, perhaps they could alter it to the same position the player was originally drafted ..

As a draft picks the Leafs always had the choice of walking away from their rights by not offering him a contract if they wanted to .. yet Mitchell himself is a Ontario boy and a Diehard leaf Fan so if he is ruled UFA under the old agreement and Toronto wants him then I am sure that Mitchell may choose Toronto, but even if he does not ..HIS RIGHTS have not been violated as he has the right to offer his services to 29 other teams, just like I am claiming Jeff Carter does and that draft position really has little to do with a LEGAL case.

If people looked at the 2003 draft class and removed the Euro players drafted and the NCAA & US High School all exempt from this situation and then removed the players already signed by NHL teams ... The players that are affected by the lockout situation are a small percentage and many will be mid to late round picks that are long shot NHLers to boot ..

Most important factor that needs to be considered here is that this is a NHL LOCKOUT .. The NHL is in full control at the moment .. If this was a NHLPA STRIKE, then I could see the NHL making provisions to get prospects like Carter signed and offering additional time to the drafting teams because their hands were tied by a situation outside of their control .. but a Lockout is in the owners hands and no one is causing this situation but themselves and they are saving millions on guaranteed contracts by not paying the players that the benefit is much greater than a few 20 year old that may become UFA due to it .. Since we know that time is ticking on NHL players contracts as a result of the Lockout, I see no reason to believe that time is not ticking the same on unsigned prospects like Carter and Richards.

Last edited by Mess: 01-07-2005 at 12:48 PM.
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