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01-13-2005, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
I should have elaborated more I guess,

While Dawkins provides a level of security for Sheppard and Brown, including Lewis doesn't help your case much as he is only average in coverage. Additionally, the Eagles have been playing Cover 1 consistently, although they of course do play some Cover 2, and probably will begin the game this weekend in that.
I admit, I have not seen every Eagle game, but I have seen more than my share. Compared to previous years, Dawkins and Lewis are in coverage more.

Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
While you MIGHT be correct that JJ blitzes less because of the ineptitude of Sheppard and Brown, that is pure conjecture. Put it this way, maybe JJ doesn't blitz as much because he doesn't have to? JJ isn't some pyscho in love with the blitz with no rhyme or reason. He harps on pressuring the QB, and for the large part that has been attained by the front 4 pressure. It would be equally applicable if I were to say JJ only blitzed so much with Vincent and Taylor because he HAD to, not because he was afforded the ability to. Prior to Kearse, the Eagles primary pass rush was from blitzing. I think it would be entirely plausible that if it were the case that the Eagles had Vincent and Taylor in their primes right now, the Eagles would blitz approximately the same amount due to the pressure of the front four.
It is more than conjecture, it is an educated guess. Eagles pass rush is actually down from what JJ usually has. 47 sacks, while still among the best in the league, is down form the 50+ he typically produces.

No way will you convince me that JJ is blitzing as much as he would like to. To hear you say that in the same paragraph where you accuse me of conjecture is insulting. Maybe you are a newer Eagles fan, but Kearse is a non-factor here. Remember Hugh Douglas? Kearse had all of 7.5 sacks this year. Excluding the year he was injured, Douglas averaged almost double that. Douglas was a top-end pass threat, that didn't stop JJ from being the most blitz-happy DefCo in the NFL.

We have already seen what JJ does when he has top cover-CBs and a top-end pass rush. He still blitzes like mad. This year, he still had the top-end pass rush, but his blitzing was way down. More so, he left his safeties back in coverage more. Football 101 is that you can't blitz unless you can cover 1-on-1 in your secondary. Now, I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink.

Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
Maybe they don't play as much man (although you offer no proof of this, you are kind of just throwing that out there an expecting me to blindly believe it as evidence) but that may also be attributed to the reasons I have just discussed. I never said they were equivicobale to Vincent and Taylor in their primes.
It isn't a statistic I can produce. If I could, I would. It is what I have observed with my own eyes. If you want to call me a liar, prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
I think you are persistently confusing me as pimping Shep and Brown as super stars, which, at least now, they are not. But I DO feel like you are undervalueing them. As I tried to make clear in our earlier debate, my opinion of them is that Lito has outstanding potential, but is currently an average to above average playmaking corner who has yet to reach his potential; while Brown I felt was actually currently the better of the two corners: he has very sound technique, and I can think of few instances this year when he was legitimately beat.
Now I will call you a liar. You are not pimping Shep and Brown? How many weekly 'CBs played well' updates did you give us again? If constantly calling attention to the play of the CBs isn't pimping them, then what is? If making sure we all know that Lito is leading the NFC in Pro Bowl votes isn't pimping, what is?

If you consider Lito and Brown to be no more than average CBs, then we are on the same page. That is indeed what they are. Lito would make a great #2 IMO because he is a playmaker. However, he does gamble and does get burned. He proved that last year and QBs started picking on him for it. This year, he was given safety help far more often and the big plays dropped. QBs just don't force balls into double coverage that often. I don't think he can be left on an island against a top receiver without getting frequently burned. Put him on a lesser #2 WR and he can get away with gambling more.

My opinion of Brown has not changed all year. Good physical technician with limited tools. He doesn't have the speed or size to match-up 1-on-1. He plays within his abilities and doesn't gamble. While this means he doesn't get burned, he also doesn't make many plays. I think he is the kind of CB that will be around a long, long time because his game is heart and head. I very much doubt he will ever be a stand-out though. Just doesn't have the measurables for it.

Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
What real criticisms do you have of them by watching them play? I don't think it's fair of you to completely devalue the season they have had simply because the Eagles have good pressure and Dawkins. They have not been abused in a single game all year. Not only that, but many of your criticisms about them earlier in the year have proven to be false, or at least they improved upon them (such as Lito's run support which has been a pleasant suprise)
Calling your bluff here. Check out the off-season Eagle thread:

Show me where I questioned Lito's run support or what of my claims have proven false. Here is what I said:
1) Huge question at CB. Entering the season, no doubt they did. And still do. Safeties will have to cover more as a result.
2) Question at RB with Bucky and Perry done and Westbrook returning from injury.
3) LBs are marginal
4) Simoneau is a liability as a MLB, Trotter is a better player (boy did I ever take heat for that as well).
5) As long as JJ is in town, the Eagles defense will be good.
6) Eagles struggle in run defense with their original base defense (sans Trotter and Rayburn)
7) Defense took a step back, offense will need to pick up the slack.

Now, please show me all these criticisms that have proven false. Nowhere did I knock Lito's run support.

If you are going to accuse me of something, you best back it up. You blast me for not being able to support some of my views (because the stats simply don't exist) then fabricate crap like this. Don't be such a hypocrite.

Last edited by JCD: 01-13-2005 at 09:02 AM.
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