Vokoun will be a BlackHawk !
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02-22-2010, 03:26 PM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Originally Posted by
You put words in my mouth...
I never said Beach was as good as Getzlaf... I just asked you to go and watch the stats !
Getzlaf is already in the NHL so I know your speech will be different. But I would have love to see you debating on Getzlaf's potential in his last year in junior. But I guess Ryan is a whole other monster, and putting about a point-per-game in his last year of junior is AMAZING for a guy like Getzlaf !!
Whereas Kyle Beach is a bum, and leads his league in goal juste because he is 6'3 and 200 lbs and he runs over people due to him being a man amongst boys !
I love your opinion, I love reading your posts here... But man if I'm the incredibly optimistic one... You must be the deaf and the blind in the same body !
Kyle Beach was expected to be a top-3 or top-5 pick a couple of years before his draft year... Then people were scared away because of his attitude problems... So he fell to 11th... Getzlaf was expected to be a top-10 pick... Then people were scared away because of his skating and laziness...
Like I said, Getzlaf was considered to be an underachiever. No, his last season of junior wasn't that great for him. But still, he always had the talent to be much better. Something clicked along the way and he turned into the superstar he could be. Beach is not lazy or an underachiever, he's just not nearly as talented as Getzlaf was. That's why comparing their junior stats doesn't work, it's two different situations. I never said Beach was a bum or a bad player. I gave my reasons for why I thought the 46 goals isn't as impressive as it looks, and yes him being a man amongst boys right now is certainly one of them. You always take that into account when you are looking at much bigger junior players. Some of them are very productive in junior because they can physically dominate their peers at that level, but when they get to the pros it's a whole different story. Anthony Stewart anyone?
Also, it became apparent during the 2008 draft year that Beach was not a top 3-5 pick based solely on his talent, there were other prospects than emerged as superior to Beach such as Pietrangelo, Schenn, Bogosian, Wilson, etc.
Getzlaf may be supremly talented compared to Beach... My point was that you don't have to put huge numbers in the WHL to be considered a monster prospect...
Well, you have to do something. Right now, I'd say Beach's upside is about a 60 pt. player in the NHL, who also brings toughness and physicality. While that's a nice thing to have, I wouldn't call that a monster prospect. Again, you can't compare Getzlaf to Beach in the WHL because Getzlaf always had amazing talent underneath his laziness. You said you're not saying that Beach is as good as Getzlaf was, but that's basically what you're implying, that he could become as good as Getzlaf.
You talk about my expectations, you don't even know them... Wanting a player because of his "home-run" potential doesn't mean you expect the guy to be Babe Ruth !
You stated what your expectations of Beach were, a Bertuzzi-lite.
As I've said... Kyle Beach has the shot, the agitator style, the skating and the size to be quite an effective NHLer, what kind of NHLer will he be ? I don't know.
Can you explain why I need to lower my expectations ? People with low expectations are people easily satisfy... Satisfaction is death to me... So no thanks buddy !
Because if you always have high expectations, that's unrealistic. A lot of prospects don't fulfill their full potential. As Laus said, you have to project their upside, then their lowest point, and then what's in the middle should be your expectations.
I'm tired of this debate... What I don't get, is that you projected him to be a 30 goal-scorer 60 pts player if everything goes right... Even though you can't say a good thing about the player !
If it seems like I can't say a good thing about Beach, it's only because I was trying to counter your overly optimistic views of him. I do like Beach somewhat, I even said he's got some nice talent, but I'm just not prepared to call him a future 1st liner at this point.
You even compared Garrett Wilson with the kid, and I was a gentleman, I didn't even laugh at you...
Why would you laugh at me? Beach has 46 goals, 73 pts., he's a 4th year 19 yr. old. Wilson has 32 goals, 57 pts., he's a 2nd year 18 yr. old. Looking at those numbers, Wilson's projection path seems to mirror Beach's very closely by the time he's 19 or 20. Or do you only count the numbers for Beach and dismiss them for Wilson??? Double standard much?
Originally Posted by
I'm not sure anyone's saying he's a scrub, but goaltending is the the last position the Panthers need right now. Getting two back doesn't make a whole lot of sense when they have needs everywhere else unless they know they can flip one of them.
I know, but simply put Crawford's an asset. Doesn't really matter if he's a goalie, prospects can always be traded to shore up other areas of need. Who knows, maybe Florida was offered a choice of prospects from every position, and Crawford was more appealing than the D and F prospects. And considering he'd probably be our best AHL goalie if Markstrom made the Panthers, I don't see how that's a bad thing. If it pushes Salak farther down the ladder, that's a good thing. All that means is that your prospects are strong. Having strong callup depth at goalie and also strong netminding on your AHL team where your prospects are developing is never a bad thing. It would simply add more depth, which is never a bad thing. We are not so deep at goalie that we can't use Crawford. Yes, we need help in other areas, but that doesn't all have to come from one move. That would be basically impossible anyway.
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