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02-10-2005, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Okay, same reason the the Raptors and Blue Jays are small market teams.
The Blue Jays were a large market team. They used to have the largest payroll in all of MLB.

What changed? Did Toronto all of a sudden shrink?

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
It doesn't matter how well managed 80% of the teams are, they will never have the revenue that the Rangers have. On the other had it doesn't matter how poorly managed the Rangers are they will still be raking in tons of money. That's your problem there.
I've said all along that being in the right market was almost as important as anything else.

The fact that the Rangers are in New York is good for the NHL.

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I saw your reasons, in the end they are in the same boat as the rest of the teams that need a new CBA.
How so? None of the reasons I posted had anything to do with a CBA.

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
To repeat myself: Rangers on one side, Oilers on the other.
I want an example of two American teams.

Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I guess you don't know that this "Group of 8" was made up by a columnist. He also labeled teams like the Kings, Stars, and Red Wings as teams that don't want cost certainty when they have come out and said that they do.
I'm not talking about whether they want cost certainty. Every team in the league does. They'd be stupid not to. In fact I'm not neccessarily arguing against a cap. I think if it's done right, a cap could work.

Back to my Detroit/ Chicago examples. Both teams are original six teams with strong traditions and both are in large markets

Detroit was not very good in the 80's. But Illitch put money into the team, he assembled great players, and he hired the best coach of all time. He's transformed Detroit into "Hockeytown USA".

Chicago went to the finals in the early 90's. The fans then had to watch as ownership let players like Belfour, Roenick and Chelios leave largely over money and go on to have many great years with other teams. Ownership is a joke, they go through coaches and GMs like crazy and they have trouble putting a competitive team on the ice.

As a result, fans slowly start to not come to games. Ownerships answer? Yank the home games off TV of course. That'll show those ungrateful fans.

Do you not see how backwards this is?

My concern is that Bettman's plans will allow owners to continue running their teams in this fashion. And that's unnacceptable. More than anything this is what will kill hockey in the States. The NHL will get left behind in the dust back in the stone ages.

During this whole lockout, people have painted the large market teams as evil and blamed them for causing this situation.

But honest question. Who has done more to grow hockey in the States? Illitch or Wirtz?

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