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04-29-2010, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
if you want evidence take a look around the nhl. look at how many nhl players wear bauer. compare it to the ones that wear graf. this isnt a marketing thing on teh part of bauer, these pros will wear what they want, as you admit later in your post, and most want bauer and the least worn skate is probably graf. there must be a reason behind it
Again, this is meaningless. Graf is not seeking to have the largest market share, they seek to offer the best product, and to allow the consumer public to find it on their own. I liken them to Apple computer; the best product - but not for everyone, nor do they want everyone to have it.

they arent a performance skate the same way wooden sticks arent a performance sticks. and on the same token some pros use wooden sticks, and shoot just fine with them, its just a matter of whats comfortable to them, but the technology is miles ahead at bauer
I'm sorry, but this is just absurd. If NHL players are wearing Grafs, then whether you like it or not, its a high end skate. A professional is not going to wear something that will jeopardize his ability to succeed on the ice. NHL players wear sherwood 5030 shoulder pads - even though they provide little or no protection - because they do not interfere with their motion and ability to play and succeed. The most important part of an ice hockey player's gear is their skates - so to claim its not a good product when significant numbers of NHL players wear them - without any marketing or payments coming from Graf, unlike Bauer, is just not factual.

that doesnt negate the fact the most pros wear bauer.
Never claimed otherwise, and I doubt Graf would argue either. But again, one companies pays, and the other doesn't. That might be influential in the decision making process.

imagine if they sold other skates than just graf. if they are doing that well just selling graf(well first of all there are alot of people not wearing the skate they want and were probably pressured into buying a skate that might not fit best) imagine how well they would do if they carried the more popular skate brands like bauer, easton, rbk and ccm
Speculation at best. Graf makes a multitude of skate shapes to fit all types of feet. It is not clear to me how someone can claim a company that makes styles around foot shapes and offers an overlay of narrow-med-wide widths on top, is going to offer less choice than Bauer or other makers who offer fewer fitting options.

there has been alot more pointed posts than TBLfan/and his statement is true, my brotehr experienced it first hand when his grafs broke right after he got them and many others have too
Since you do not have the total figures for sales and defectives, going merely by a single anecdotal story - or even a single store - is just not sufficient to be able to make a sweeping claim about a company rate of defective merchandise.

More to the point, claiming in a public forum that a company intentionally screws its customers over is a libelous statement, and I am a member of other large web forums where manufacturers have sued both the forum owner and posters for making non-factual claims of that nature. I like HF, I don't wish to see that happen here. (For those curious, the forum I am referring to is club obi-wan, a site for aficianados of the Indiana Jones leather jacket).

most importantly, TBLfan and Heat McManus are 2 of the most knowledgeable posters on the forums when it comes to equipment. these are two of the posters that when i see they posted something in here i make sure i read it
I do not claim otherwise, but some of TBLs statements, like the ones above, are not fact-based, and while they might be quite knowledgeable in general, sweeping claims have been made in this thread that are unbecoming of the forum overall, and are not based in fact, which is what is most important.

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