View Single Post
Old
08-15-2010, 04:20 PM
  #81
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
How am I missing the point? I am agreeing with you completely. But he also circumvented the cap for the time being since Pronger is on a lower-than-market value contract as of right now. Just because the GM is a moron doesn't make the contract not currently circumventing the cap. That's the point that's clearly being debated.

Just because I didn't know I can't kill people doesn't make me not a murderer.
Nobody has done anything illegal, not even Kovalchuk's contract was "illegal."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
And? As I said -- just because your GM is an idiot doesn't make the contract not currently cap circumvention. He's being paid below market value due to an artificially lowered cap hit. Just because there are reprecussions down the line doesn't make it somehow right.
You're right, just because Holmgren screwed up (if he even screwed up at all) doesn't make the contract not circumvent any cap. It's the fact that it doesn't circumvent any cap that makes it not circumvent any cap.

I have news for you: if this contract circumvents cap, then something like 80% of NHL contracts do as well. I know for a fact the majority of Flyers' contracts should be thrown out based on your theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The only thing you've demonstrated is a lack of understanding on what cap circumvention actually is.
That's what you're doing. Altering the amount of money paid per season is NOT cap circumvention regardless of how much the dollar amount changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You really don't understand what cap circumvention is. It's the artificial lowering of a cap hit on a contract by front loading it significantly.
That's not circumvention at all.

Circumvention is not paying the entirety of the cap charge created by the total dollar amount paid along with the number of years on the contract.

What you're saying is perfectly legal. In fact, Kovalchuk's contract was perfectly legal. It got thrown out because there was an inherent and almost blatant risk of cap circumvention through retirement.

Just "artificially altering" (because nothing is being lowered) the cap hit of a player by paying him more money when he wants more money is NOT circumvention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Doesn't matter if the player is signed as a 27 year old or a 35 year old. Pronger is currently making below market value due to the added years at a minimum salary at the end of the deal. End of story.
Market value is whatever Pronger is signed at. I don't care if it's a discount or whatever you want to call it. His contract is his contract. Who are you to determine what Pronger deserves? Are we going to go through and arbitrate the entire NHL? If you plan on doing that you might as well remove GMs from the game completely. There's no need for them then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Clearly.
Yep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I actually have a grasp on what cap circumvention is.
You're actually pretty freaking clueless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You really do not. You are arguing just because it's a stupid contract with a pretty ****** self-inflicted punishment at the end that it's somehow not cap circumvention. This is just ridiculous.
No, what's ridiculous is that you want to throw out the vast majority of contracts in the NHL on the grounds of cap circumvention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You were able to make a run for the Cup, despite being right up against the cap ceiling, due to Pronger's play and his artificially deflated salary. Do you not understand this?
Pronger hasn't even started this contract. He was at like $6.25m/year last year in terms of cap hit or something.

Also, are you a Devils fan? I assume so being from NJ. Anyway, you were able to make the playoffs because of Parise's low cap hit. Do you understand that? Maybe you're circumventing, and the NHL should throw out his contract.

That's basically what you're suggesting for Pronger. It's an absolutely unbelievable argument you're trying to make right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The contract is pure cap circumvention. I'm OK with it since it will severely handicap your team in the future so I'd prefer to see it kept in place. But in all reality, it should be voided due to the clear cap circumvention taking place.
It is NOT cap circumvention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Again -- just because your team is punishing itself in the future (due to the non-grasping of the rules) does not mean the contract isn't currently circumventing the cap. It absolutely is and it almost won you a Cup this year (just as how Hossa's contract helped Chicago to win a Cup).
It's not circumventing the cap because it isn't circumventing the cap. That's just the way it is.

If you think that it's cap circumvention then go write Bettman a letter and tell him to redraft the CBA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You need to really sit down and think about what you're saying. You do not have a grasp on what cap circumvention actually is.
Jesus ****ing christ.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote