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08-23-2010, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Starchild74 View Post
I did not want to get into scoring vs forwards it was a comparison against his own position. To try and show that Orr as great as he was had no one to compete agaisnt in his position really. Where Gretzky was beating the best of the best offensive players ever at his position That is why I also never included wingers against Gretzky because there are some great wingers Gretzky dominated also

Orr did outscore forwards and hall of fame forwards their is no debate about that but let's be honest here except for Orr and a few wingers in the history of the NHL the players who get the most points are Centers. Gretzky did not just beat them and get more points he dominated every one fo them. All HHOF ones. Like I said this is not an argument to prove Gretzky is the best ever. I never once said who was the best of the two. I am just trying in my way of showing that it is alot closer then some on here have said. If Orr is better or if Gretaky is better it is not by much. It is just that alot of posters on here have said Orr Dominated offensively like no other player ever, which is not true. I mean Paul Coffey scored more points then some forwards too. In the playoffs some defenceman have scored more points then forwards.
I posted this on another thread, but it bears repeating, at least when considering domination of positional peers. Orr's numbers are staggering -- very often his offense is compared with other centers (though he can hold his own there), but the more natural comparison would be to analyze his dominance when comparing him to his positional peers.

When looking at the top percentage leaders over their positional peers (using adjusted stats) from the center position, Gretzky holds 2 of the top four spots, but Esposito holds the top spot overall:

1) Esposito Phil 1970-71 147 pts 79.27%
Ullman Norm 1970-71 82 pts

2) Gretzky Wayne 1983-84 164 pts 72.63%
Stastny Peter 1983-84 95 pts

3) Gretzky Wayne 1986-87 157 pts 70.65%
Lemieux Mario 1986-87 92 pts

4) Esposito Phil 1973-74 135 pts 66.67%
Clarke Bobby 1973-74 81 pts

Bobby Orr holds the top four spots for top percentage leaders over his positional peers (using adjusted stats) from the defence position, and at a much higher % than any other positional peer comparison :

1) Orr Bobby 1969-70 124 pts 175.56%
Mckenny Jim 1969-70 45 pts

2) Orr Bobby 1970-71 136 pts 122.95%
Trembley J.C. 1970-71 61 pts

3) Orr Bobby 1972-73 92 pts 87.76%
Lapointe Guy 1972-73 49 pts

4) Orr Bobby 1974-75 116 pts 81.25%
Lapointe Guy 1974-75 64 pts

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