Orr v. Gretzky (Part 2)
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08-23-2010, 09:38 PM
Just a Fool
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Guelph, Ont
Originally Posted by
First of all you said the Canadiens played the trap. Which is untrue as you have stated they would clog up the neutral zone when holding a lead. Alot of teams have done this in the past and present when holding a lead. When you say a team plays the trap it means clogging up the neutral zone (a term I hate because it is center ice) They do this for almost the whol egame unless trailing. Montreal did not do this the whole game and primarily did it in the 3rd period.
May wanna pick up Dryden's book "The Game" where he talks about how Bowman enforced a strict defensive scheme (trap) from the center ice line back but allowed total offensive freedom on the other side of the line until they had a lead in the third period, when he would then, reel them in.
Your definition of a trap is correct however in the purest form of the trap means that a team would play like this as their primary system and no team truly played the trap like they did in the "Dead Puck era" I can not agree with you the the MOntreal Canadiens played the trap the way it was later designed and perfect by New Jersey Devils. I am sorry I think it takes away from the talented team they had and tries to label them as a team like the Devils
I don't care what you think it takes away from or that you don't seem to know the difference between the various deployments and focuses that a "trap" system can operate under.
I mean if you didn't know any better, you would of thought that Lemaire played under Bowman at some point....oh wait...HE DID
Again...the "Trap" when played aggressively with skilled players is a turnover making, counter attacking offensive tool.
The "Trap" played conservatively with lesser skilled players is more like a wall, bouncing pucks back. Add in the clutch and grab and it turns into a wall with a mud pit around it.
The Trap did not produce the "dead puck era", the water skiing, holding and interference did. If it wasn't the Trap, it would of just been some other system played uber conservatively that would of gotten the bad rep.
Do you ever really read a post. I mean when did I ever say that Orr did not influence the way the defence was played. Never have I said that, I have never said anything against how Orr changed the position.
Is it hard to think that Bobby Orr helped change hockey? Of course not he did. However you think of him as a God. You make it seem that everything he did means that anyone else that came along or any system was becasue of him.
Not every system...just the ones that involve Dmen playing active roles offensively....opps...I guess that would be all of them, my bad.
Did Orr help open up the game? Yes of course he did I never said he didn't just that European teams and players who helped revolutionize hockey also have some credit in that change. You seem to only give Orr credit and just him alone, which is not accurate at all. Once again in case you missed it. Bobby Orr CHANGED how defenceman were seen and how the position was played later on. Bobby Orr opened up the game and made a new system that involves a rushing defenceman to take control of the offence. He just did not do it all and their are other influences out there. He might be the most prolific player to change the NHL and maybe changed it more then anyone else but to say that no other player before or after Bobby Orr has anything to do with the change of hockey is pure B.S
I never said Orr was the ONLY person that changed the game, I only said that he was the guy that ushered in the most change on his own.
Plante coming out of his net to play the puck, the give and go, European east/west puck and player movement all had their affect on the game.
To be quite honest, more of the changes in the game as we know them came from Europe first.
The "trap", "Leftwing lock", more flowing play and the idea that wingers shouldn't just be locked into going up and down their own wings all day long are just a few of the things that were more prevalent over seas before the NHL.
The Europeans have never been as stubborn or locked into their ways like the NHL has a history of being.
They are always trying new things and experimenting over there that quite frankly, no one in the NHL would have the balls to try here.
All that being said, no one changed the game around the globe like than Orr did and the reality is that the European's actually embraced Orr's example of activating their D before the NHL did.
They came up with systems and styles to fully incorporate an active D long before the NHL fully did, evidenced easily by advanced 5 man play of the Russians in the late 70's and early 80's.
So don't sit there and try and tell me that I am not giving other factors and influences their due credit, especially the European ones, because I most certainly do.
The only influences that have been questioned in this thread have been Bobby Orr's.
You tell me to take my Orr glasses off and that he isn't god.
Well...you're right, he isn't god but in the game of hockey, he's the closest thing you're going to get my friend.
Orr was the greatest package of skill, speed, toughness, talent and awareness the world has ever seen period.
Last edited by Rhiessan71: 08-23-2010 at
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