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10-03-2010, 01:36 PM
  #329
CS
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Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude, seriously? Read this post again and really think it through, and ponder whether you're completely and utterly lacking in objectivity when you talk about Nodl.

While I would agree that Nodl has better hands than Powe, that doesn't mean he necessarily has a better scoring touch. Brendl had absolutely filthy hands, but that **** didn't work out for him.

I guess Dino Ciccarelli lacked scoring touch since he was basically a junkyard dog...
So you're complaining because we define a term differently?

That's basically what our argument amounts to at this point.

I think I don't need to say much to point out how pointless that is.

We basically agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) Killing penalties is a different animal than playing even strength defense. Case in point, do you remember how atrocious RJ Umberger was defensively at even strength a couple years back, while being an excellent PKer? Playing a zone and filling lanes is a bit different from playing man-on-man and following the rotations.
Agreed. It is possible to be a good penalty killer and not as hot defensively at even strength.

I think however that the examples of such a thing are few and far between.

In the end, I consider both Giroux and Nodl defensively responsible at even strength. Stats support your argument and watching games/coaching decisions supports mine.

You can say that the stats are more telling if you want but don't forget that mistakes can be made by other people on the ice. Giroux and Nodl's defensive competency cannot and should not be boiled down to whether or not Krajicek, Parent, or Bartulis were on the ice at the same time, nor should it account for Asham and JVR (in Giroux's case), both of which are not exactly prime defensive candidates.

Granted, I will say that the center holds the majority of the responsibility, but again, just because there are some instances where a player is not solid defensively at even strength while very good at the PK, it does not mean that all players who are counted on for the PK without a very good GAON/60 are deficient defensively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Watch players in a game and you might understand that nuance.
I assure you that I watch closely.

You wouldn't like it if I told you to watch a game to understand what I'm saying, so why would you say that to me. You should be well aware that I watch quite a few games on numerous levels of competition at this point.

I'm not trying to be rude, so don't be rude to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
2) Stats prove whether or not you're effective at what you're supposedly good at doing. If the other team is scoring on you at a prolific rate... and much higher than your teammates, then maybe you're not so good defensively.
Again, stats can lie by a substantial amount.

Another thing to point out is just about how intangible defensive stats are. It's not like scoring where you can just throw a number of assists and goals per whatever amount of time to get a production baseline.

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