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10-16-2010, 02:53 PM
  #253
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Roy could have an off game, Vernon could have a bad game but Potvin wrote the book on stinking up the joint. The Cat was loved and hated.


Exactly. He knew how to be gosh darn the worst goalie you have ever seen in the NHL. He was a rich man's version of another goalie who spent time as a Vancouver Canuck (shall remain unnamed because undrafted but no one will ever draft that guy hopefully).
Nonsense! Is this based in fact, or is it a sensationalization of you own recollections as a Vancouver fan?

If a goalie's having a bad game, he tends to get pulled. So why don't we take a look at the last 7 goalies selected whose careers overlapped Potvin's, and see how often he got pulled compared to them. Surely a guy who "wrote the book on stinking up the joint" would get yanked regularly.

This goes all the way back to the Bill Ranford selection in round 4 of the MLD:

Name yanks GP yank%
puppa 54 445 12.1%
ranford 78 700 11.1%
irbe 57 613 9.3%
burke 74 858 8.6%
nabokov 51 643 7.9%
potvin 54 727 7.4%
vokoun 42 589 7.1%
turco 33 559 5.9%

source: Dr. No's www.hockeygoalies.org, counted games where "replaced by" was stated, and this includes all regular season and playoff games. Games when replaced twice were only counted as replaced once.

Doesn't look too bad, does he?

Now, let's see if there is a source for your Potvin frustration:

Name yanks GP yank%
potvin VAN 10 69 14.5%
potvin nonVAN 44 673 6.5%

Aha! there it is.

Potvin was pulled over twice as often in Vancouver, as he was in the rest of his career. No wonder you say such things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
[img]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/thumb/d/de/Sergei_Starikov.jpg/230px-Sergei_Starikov.jpg[/img]

Queen's University selects defenseman Sergei Starikov, the 10-year veteran of the Soviet national team, playing in 186 international contests starting in 1979 when he was Vasiliev's partner on the top pairing in the USSR's victorious best-of-three series win over the NHL's stars in the Challenge Cup. That same year he scored 4 points in 4 games against NHL clubs as a member of the Soviet Wings club in the Super Series. He scored 7 points in 7 games in the 1980 Olympics. He scored 3 assists in the 1984 Canada Cup. He scored 4 goals in the 1987 world championships. He also scored points in the 1984 and 1988 Olympics, 1983 and 1989 Super Series, and in Rendez'Vous '87. All this despite being described as a stay-at-home defender. He is 10th in all-time games for a defenseman on the national team. In addition to his play against the world's best, he was a regular on the blueline in 9 Soviet league championships for the vaulted Red Army team.
He played in 75 international games that mattered - still impressive.

Question about what type of defenseman he was, though.

Internationally, he has 38 points in those 75 games. For the majority of his international career, he was obviously a third-pairing defenseman behind Fetisov/Kasatonov and Pervukin/Bilyaletdinov. But he outscored the last two badly:

Bilyaletdinov: 28/100
Pervukhin: 33/121

So, if he played on the third pairing and outscored those guys, are you sure he was a stay at home player? He sounds like more of an offensive specialist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamboni Mania View Post
The Tigers draft Dale McCourt.



* Averaged 30 goals per season over his first five NHL seasons (33, 28, 30, 30, 33)
* Averaged nearly a point per game his years in Detroit (337 points in 341 games)
* 1976 Memorial Cup MVP, 1977 CHL Player of the Year, 1977 IIHF WJC Best Forward
WTF? I can't believe you took McCourt. This guy hasn't been drafted, or even mentioned before. But I think he's been badly overlooked.

This guy was Detroit's Mr. Everything for five good seasons. He was their best player, possibly in all three situations. He killed a ton of penalties.

And I was saving this little tidbit for when I drafted him as a spare, which obviously isn't happening now:

Most 22+ minute, 40+ game seasons, forwards:

Gretzky 15
Messier 12
Lemieux 11
Sakic 11
Yzerman 10
Oates 10
Esposito 8
Brindamour 8
Lindros 7
Gilmour 6
Kariya 6
Jagr 6
Bure 6
Dionne 5
Modano 5
Lafontaine 5
Hull 5
Selanne 4
Kovalev 4
Fleury 4
Francis 4
McCourt 3
Clarke 3
Forsberg 3
Straka 3
Palffy 3
Paiement 3
Mikita 3
Larmer 3
Kurri 3
Amonte 3


Quote:
Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
I really disagree with your selection, to be honest. TDMM and I also went over the same guys we talked about and we are collectively smarter than you.
LOL - TDMM is smarter than me on his own, he doesn't need you! And there have been 9 goalies selected since you took Bouchard as your MLD backup, so who cares if you liked Potvin back then or not?

You and I talked about available goalies already. You know the kind of guys I started looking at. Potvin's resume is better than theirs overall. Once I added up all the factors I was looking for, he was easily the best choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Top-6 wingers, yeah. And quality offensive defensemen.

Tons of quality Bottom-6 wingers available though. And there are always a lot of quality centers and defensive defensemen.
I have found the same thing.

Perhaps our standards of what constitutes a "top-6 winger" has to change by the time we're 1200 picks in?

For example, I would generally tend to think of Scott Mellanby as a bottom-6 player, but 850 career points is the highest total of any player in this draft, if I'm not mistaken, and seven 50+ point seasons has to put him top-8 in that regard as well. If he's one of the most offensively-established players here, then he can go on a top line.

I could put him on a 4th because he's good at that game, and grab a guy whose offense is less-established, but whose primary skill was offense, but to me, that would be akin to putting Bill Cook on an ATD 4th line to make room for Peter Bondra because Bondra is "more of a scorer"

anyway, yeah, I feel your pain, guys, we are all "settling" for wingers right now. My selection of Golikov was based on the embarrassing lack of scoring RWs out there as well as the fact that I thought VI would be after him. (not sure why he thinks his brother is better, unless getting into a few more international games makes him better!)

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