View Single Post
02-13-2011, 03:49 PM
Registered User
Xspyrit's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada
Country: Monaco
Posts: 14,730
vCash: 1000
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
I'm well aware that Murray inherited a tough situation, but his decisions at the NHL level have been nothing short of abysmal. Given the state of our farm, we were going not going to remain a perpetual Cup contender, but there is no reason why we had to miss the playoffs twice in four years, win only two playoff games over that span, and become the 2nd worst team in the league. That's on him.

As for the players you list, most of the league has a young nucleus as good or better than ours. I would take the Panthers', Islanders' and Oilers' youth over ours without thinking twice. We've been bad for 4 years, and have a middling group of prospects to show for it. I can't justify saying he's done a good job, because the results say otherwise. He's a mediocre GM, and his tenure here will be looked back on as somewhere between mediocre and bad, depending on how many of his prospects actually become players.
You see? That’s the problem right here.

Abysmal? What are you talking about? Some of you are just exaggerating way too much

His coaching hirings sucked (although Clouston showed some promise in the first 1.5 years) but what else has been that “abysmal”?

- The Heatley deal? How much blame can we fairly put on Murray there? And, while Heatley produces more than Michalek, he costs 3.2M$ more per season and is a pain in the ace for the fans and maybe some of his teammates/coachs. Michalek seems like a great guy who isn’t making any noise off the ice. You gotta love his speed and 2-way game as well, as opposed to Heatley being useless when he doesn’t score. The 2nd round pick was used to get a rental (Cullen or Sutton, don’t remember) but a rental is what it is, a chance to improve your team and go farther in the playoffs. There are at least 8-10 teams every year who give up assets at the deadline for “rentals”. ALL THE NHL teams have done it multiple times in the past, well those who make the playoffs. Murray is not a bad GM for doing it as well...

- The Leclaire deal? Maybe we could have kept Vermette instead of Fisher but damn, have you watched Vermette in the Playoffs? And outside of last season playing alongside NHL star Rick Nash, Vermette hasn’t been a more productive center than Fisher, ever.

And what were we suppose to do with goaltending? Have Elliott and Auld as our goalie tandem? No, Murray used Vermette as an asset before losing him to UFA and sacrificed him in an attempt to cure the biggest weakness of this team. Leclaire has the talent but not the endurance to do it. It was a good try nonetheless, as most experts liked that trade. Murray also got a 2nd round pick out of that deal (Lehner), so there’s a good chance we could still salvage this deal

- Kelly’s cap hit? With time, Kelly has even proven to be underpaid. His PK ability, work ethic, leadership skills, and production at ES proves it.

- Neil cap hit? With time, Neil has proven to be worth his value. NHL is a market, it’s not a fantasy world where virtual armchair GMs decide what the players are worth. Neil (product) is easily worth his salary because other teams (buyers) would have offered more. And I’m not talking about 1 or 2 teams there. Many teams would take Neil in their line-up, particulary playoffs teams.

- Carkner’s cap hit? Yes, some people found a way to whine at Murray for signing Carkner for a freaking 0.7 cap hit! Lol, Carkner is a top-3 fighter in the NHL and can hold a regular spot on a 3rd pairing.

- Fisher’s cap hit? Maybe Fisher was slightly overpaid but again if people think a consistent 20 goals/45 points scorer in the NHL who is among leaders in hits every year isn’t worth 4.0, they are the one mistaken. It’s easy to say “this guy is overpaid”, but you have to be able to understand what a market is.

David Poile, one of Fuhr (who has about the same opinion as you do on the subject) favorite GMs, just gave up a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick for Mike Fisher and his overpaid grinder contract (for 2 more years)... Does it make Poile a bad GM now too?

- Kuba? Of course, if you want, Kuba makes Murray look bad this year, but no one can control players’ injuries and declines. Kuba is still young enough that he shouldn’t be in that phase already. Bad signing in hindsight but the Meszaros deal was a steal in the first place.

- Corvo deal? Murray should have traded him for prospect and a pick but seriously, who would have liked this at that time? The team was a few months removed from a SCF and was 1 secondary scorer (someone like Stillman), 1 physical D-man (someone like Commodore) and 1 coach away (Murray replaced Paddock) from being back in it. They were also missing a goalie (Gerber was Gerber and Emery was nowhere to be seen. Nothing could have turned that season around but Murray had to try.

- Kovalev? Yes, the guy is not your typical Canadian player but it only cost some Melnyk money to acquire this guy. We are about to get a pick back for him 1.5 years later. Not that dramatic when you consider that Kovalev really helped this team to make the p/o last year and helped Fisher to have a career year (hence maybe why we are able to get a 1st back for Fisher)

- Gonchar? One of the biggest signings last summer but came at the wrong time since the team is not contending. Gonchar doesn’t make this team bad, this team makes Gonchar bad. In the end, didn’t lose any asset to acquire him and we can always trade him or just use him as a stop gap and mentor for the young players.

What if we didn’t sign Kovalev and Gonchar? Cap space is fun but only for Melnyk. In hindsight, Murray should have probably signed other UFAs but what difference would it make in the end? Not much. Problems are still coach, goaltending, injuries/health, players declining, no quality prospects to relieve the pressure from them. Just ask Aflie

Outside of the Heatley deal, none of these signings/moves really hurt the franchise. It’s only some short term patching work. Injuries and declines, along with no proper coaching/goaltending and particulary no quality prospects is why we are here today

It’s repeat and repeat anyway, you guys don’t learn to dedramatize and put things in perspective. Murray has made mistakes (everyone in the world make some) but he is far from being the only one to blame. Muckler, Melnyk, coaching staff and players are to blame as well.

Yes, the results sucked but only good drafting could have prevented this from happening and we didn’t have that for 6 full years. Of course, the Sens suck now that Alfie isn’t carrying this team anymore

PS : We've been bad for 4 years? If you expect ECF every year from your NHL team, prepare to be disappointed 95% of the time. We had decent records in 2 of the last 4 season and made the playoffs twice. No success in the playoffs is another story but outside of this year and the stretch under Hartsburg, the team has been average or above average. We haven’t been “bad” for 4 years. Another mass exaggeration from you.

PS 2 : I didn't say our young nucleus is better than other teams. I just listed it in a comparison mode vs the Oilers. No one can really say which nucleus is better, it is way too subjective. You saying that you would take Panthers, Islanders and Oilers nucleus shows that maybe you don't know as much as you seem to think

Last edited by Xspyrit: 02-13-2011 at 03:57 PM.
Xspyrit is offline