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02-26-2011, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Zauper View Post
Jack: was my source for the 08-09 GVT. I do recall there being discussion about Wideman being ahead of Chara for GVT on their team that season, though. Where are your GVT numbers from?
I was using the GVT document that they put out that goes back to 1944 or so. I don't really know why there would be different numbers for 2009...

Originally Posted by Zauper View Post
As far as the question of qualteam/qualcomp and the situations in which they played; if they all received equal TOI, and Langway wasn't playing on the PP while the others were, he would have more ES/SH minutes, which could influence numbers (particularly since only ES minutes really have a substantial consequence on +/-), and he could be playing more 'clutch' defensive minutes (defensive draws/whatever) which would be more likely to have a negative impact on his +/-, compared to 'clutch' offensive minutes played by the others -- which is part of the issue of using +/- to rate players; it doesn't mean that Langway had less of an impact, just that it was less measurable and DGVT relies on +/- and shots. (shots are also largely a symptom of the system, do they give up a lot of perimeter shots? fewer but higher quality shots? etc)
The way that each player was used is clearly important, but overall they would have been used in pretty similar situations, at least defensively. Langway was placed in fewer offensive situations, which would negatively impact his numbers here, but the reason that he was hardly placed in those situations was because he was poor offensively. In this way it is a reflection of him as a player.

Originally Posted by Zauper View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you on popular opinion and GVT, again, however -- a lot of folks around here were strong believers in the "chara was the best dman" argument, and Chara was far behind the other two finalists in GVT.
Just from looking over GVT results from the last several decades, the skaters perceived to be the best players are routinely the highest ranked by the metric. This does not necessarily mean that they are ranked in the exact proper order, but players thought to be close are generally shown as such. As far as I can see Langway is the major award winner who is furthest behind his competitors. It should be noted I suppose that mainly defensive players are not ranked very highly by this metric.

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