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03-10-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
You're not following me... The whole point is that the better teams in the league who aren't struggling to limp into the playoffs, do not have multiple players soaking up significant amounts of cap space and putting up minimal production.... The Rangers had depth issues to begin with, and it hurts even more when you factor in the injuries and lack of production of said players when healthy...

Here's more perspective for you:

Gaborik / Drury / Frolov combined have 68 points in 114 games played. They take up $17.5 mil of cap space or nearly 30% of our cap... We're getting 68 points in 114 games out of 30% of our cap space.... Henrik and Daniel Sedin each have 75+ points and carry a $6.1 mil cap... One forward on Vancouver is outproducing our 3 highest paid forwards combined.
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I would argue that it did affect the team... Not because of how he was playing prior to his injury, but based on the fact that the Rangers committed $3 mil in cap space for this guy and that it's probably not unrealistic to say that they expected somewhere in the vicinity of 20 goals and 40-55 points out of him... Having him play like crap and then losing him to injury for the remainder of the season definitely affected this team's scoring depth, resulting in other players having to step up and pick up the scoring load (Boyle most notably).
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
He was signed to play a role, specifically to add scoring depth as a top 6 forward... He can't do that now can he? The fact that he wasn't filling that role when he was healthy is irrelevant, because it's the cap space (and subsequent loss of depth) that is the loss... Just like Drury's contract.... $10 mil in dead cap space combined... In relation to this thread subject matter, that's just another factor that has presented a challenge/problem that's out of the coach's hands and working against him... We have $10 mil in cap space committed to two forwards who were supposed to contribute to our offensive depth, and they're both out of the picture now.... You can't supplant that missing scoring depth easily outside of prospect call-ups, because it's not like there's valuable forwards just sitting around waiting to be signed when you incur season-ending injuries.... Does that seem clear now? 1/6th of our cap space was committed to two forwards who had little to no impact on the team's offensive production... That's Sather's fault, and Tortorella's problem. How many other teams in a similar position to the Rangers have/had $10 mil of cap space sunk into two forwards not contributing much of anything to their team's success?
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Are you intentionally missing the point? Because I didn't think my point was that complicated... Every team has a limited amount of cap space to fill out their roster. The Rangers entered their season with $7 mil committed to Chris Drury, and $3 mil committed to Alex Frolov.... That's 1/6th of their cap space... Between playing crappy hockey when healthy, and now the injuries, the Rangers, with 14 games left to play on the season, have gotten a combined 7 goals and 20 points out of Drury & Frolov, two players expected to contribute to our offensive depth.... Blame it on poor play, blame it on the injuries, blame it on horrible contracts from Sather, none of it goes back to anything Tortorella did or didn't do, yet the circumstances significantly influence where the Rangers fall in the standings.... It's an extreme situation of cap-inefficiency, it significantly impacts our depth and our competitiveness with the rest of the league, and the blame lies with the players and the GM who gave them contracts... How many other teams are getting 20 points out of 1/6th of their cap space , cap space that was relegated to players expected to play and contribute in Top 6/9 Forward roles? Here's some perspective, in 65 games, Marc Staal has registered 3 more points than Drury & Frolov combined were able to contribute in a total of 66 games.

I don't understand why more fans, in the context of this discussion, don't want to take closer look at look at how this team was constructed by Sather, how the cap hits are dispersed relative to production, and subsequently how injuries have hurt this team due to our poor depth and poor value contracts...
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Show me another team whose GM committed $10 mil to two forwards who produced a grand total of 20 points this season. What other teams currently holding playoff positions are getting this kind of value from $10 mil in cap space relegated to 2 top 9 forwards???

Uh what????? If a discussion about cap hits and injuries, as they related to team depth, is over your head, just let me know and I'll stop now... Tell me how you, as a coach, fill the void left by two players soaking up $10 mil in cap space combining for 20 points and suffering season ending injuries... This can't be any more clear... We have crappy depth that can't compensate for colossal failure contract & performances from players who were signed to play important roles on this team.
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
The whole point is that this is not a product of Tortorella's doing, yet the circumstances significantly impact the team's ability to be competitive... Do you think Philly, Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh are getting this kind of performance vs. cap hit value out of their veteran Top 6/9 forwards??? To analyze the coach's performance vs. the team's performance, without any regard for these circumstances, is ill-advised...

You bring up the hypothetical of spending that money on 2 other players... The whole point is that Sather didn't, and we can't after the fact when they get injured for the season, because there aren't FA's sitting around out there waiting to sign contracts and fill the void left by the players who were expected to contribute in these roles.... Sure you can trade for players, but at what cost to your organization and your current team depth???

34 year old Chris "Clutch" Drury needs John Tortorella to coach him into contributing? Alex Frolov with seven 20 goal seasons under his belt, needed Torts to show him how to score goals and contribute offensively? Both were given ample opportunities to show they could contribute, both proved to be ineffective in those roles, and were passed in favor of players who could contribute more...

Do you honestly think a coach is going to have the same influence and impact on two seasoned veterans with a combined 17 years NHL experience, as he does with 3 first year rookies? Experienced veterans are low maintenance... They know what's expected of them, and they know how they're supposed to get the job done, because they've lived that before..... They don't need a coach to show them the way... Rookies require much more attention and work on the part of the coaching staff... That much is evident... The coaches are much more actively involved in how they practice, how they train, how they approach and react to game situations, etc....
Wow, great job...You must be exhausted though...I mean, your points cannot be any clearer nor make more sense. imo those who dislike Tortorella aren't dumb and completely get what you're saying. But (again) imo, they just don't like him. So it really doesn't matter how hard you try to convince ppl.

Last edited by gravytrain6t: 03-10-2011 at 01:59 PM.
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