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03-13-2011, 07:47 PM
  #57
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Cool... so third pairing minutes are fine for evaluating Meszaros, but for Coburn they are meaningless. Awesome double standard.
1) On this site you will find me noting that Meszaros is terribly overpaid for what he's doing on this team. He is.

2) In this discussion, you will find me specifically citing Meszaros' special teams minutes as something that distinguishes him from Carle and Coburn if we're talking about dealing someone.

3) At no point have I EVER based this discussion on Meszaros' third pairing minutes. So, you're either creating paper tigers, or struggle at critical reading.

Quote:
Coburn is a different player than he was a couple years ago, and no he didn't. His strong resurgence away from Timonen is partially what prompted Laviolette to promote him back.
His strong resurgence? Coburn's numbers have been regressing for consecutive years now. He's still unpredictable defensively (sometime he asserts himself, sometimes he does not), and his offensive game has become a void...

Quote:
No he isn't (isn't). He doesn't take many offensive risks because he's focusing on defense, but he has become very effective transitionally in getting pucks to players who WILL take those risks. But oh no he doesn't get points!
He's *ing terrible offensively. He completely lacks any offensive creativity, and his only "good" offensive skill is the one-timer he developed a few years back... but now he never hits the damn net, so that's pretty much a waste of time.

Coburn is pacing to 17 pts on one of the best offensive teams in the league... that's pretty bad. He had 19 pts last year... 28 the year before that... and 36 the year before that. His offensive game has disappeared.

Quote:
You aren't. You talk about how Coburn and Carle sucked previous years but fail to mention how Meszaros has his own history of sucking when, oddly enough, given more difficult even strength assignments (imagine that).
Meszaros was overpaid in TB, but he didn't suck there... all you're proving here is that you're ignorant. All of his peripheral numbers were solid down there, he just wasn't producing offensively like they hoped.

Quote:
Given the toughest assignments. Stupid argument.
Then why aren't the folks he's on the ice with displaying similar numbers? It isn't a stupid argument just because you're incapable of understanding the point.

Quote:
Them's not the facts. He's been fine defensively.
He hasn't. The team has been OBSCENELY good offensively with Carle on the ice this year (sadly behindthenet is still down, or I'd put the empirical data in front of you). If you want to make an argument for Carle THAT is what you hang your hat on, the Flyers score A LOT of goals with him on the ice... they also get scored on a lot.

Quote:
Trade Versteeg, because he's terrible. Leino can be kept, and so can all 5 D.
Versteeg is acclimating... he's also a versatile wing that can play Richards' game with him.

However, it's fine to suggest he might be moved... doesn't change the original point, which is that both Carle and Coburn are on the list of expendable players on this roster.

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