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03-13-2011, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Yes, he did. He was doing exactly what he's been doing in Philadelphia of late, except he was doing it for well over 20 minutes a night as opposed to just 20 minutes a night.
He isn't a 4M defenseman... there's a big difference between sucking and what Meszaros was doing. His defensive metrics, for example, were better in TB than Carle has been putting up this year on the best team in the East.

Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
Yes you are. You said that Meszaros is a lot better than Carle defensively and a lot better than Coburn offensively. Also, when citing Meszaros's 2nd unit special teams as the reason why he's more valuable, you're that he is equal to or better than Carle or Coburn even strength.
That isn't equating the value of their even strength minutes... hell, that isn't even making a critical analysis of their even strength minutes. That's noting that Meszaros is an all situations player, which neither Carle or Coburn are.

Yes. I'm talking about the end of last year when Krajicek was paired with Timonen and Coburn was put on the third pairing. He he turned his game around there and played really well, whether you choose to remember or not.
And no, he's been great defensively this season, and he has been "asserting himself" consistently.
With Timonen... maybe you forget Coburn getting gutted like a dead fish by Chicago whenever he was on the ice away from Timonen. And, no, he hasn't been "great defensively" this season. He's been better than in the past, but he's still been up and down.

That's annoyingly oversimplified. Read what I wrote. It's not his role to add "offensive creativity."
What you wrote was evading the fact that he sucks defensively by making an excuse for his lack of offensive skill.

Strangely, scoring goals is the metric for offense in the NHL... since that's, ya know, how we keep track of such things.

No, he was bad. Maybe you didn't watch him play enough.
The entire team was bad... he wasn't as bad as he's made out to be. Overpaid? Absolutely... still is overpaid.

Because his partner was injured for a good portion of the season and his partner is a very good hockey player.
So Matt Carle's good defensive numbers are the product of his partner? I agree...

He's hasn't been nearly as bad defensively as people make him out to be, and much of the reason why the team scores so much when he's on the ice is due to how much he helps their puck control.
I agree... Carle has very good offensive chops. However, he also has terrible defensive chops.

He has been our worst defenseman from a defensive perspective.

I want to vomit.
Trash can.

Your original point was that they are "by far" the most likely to be moved. And no matter how you want spin it, anyone playing 20+ minutes a night is not "expendable", especially when there's nobody in the wings to replace them. Removing any of those 5 D will make the team significantly worse. That includes Meszaros.
This might be hard for you... but I want you to sit and think. In an ideal world, we don't move any of 'em. In the real world, however, we might need to shed some salary. Look at the roster, and create a list of least-likely to most-likely players to be traded.

Carle and Coburn will be at the top of the list for most likely. That isn't a critique of 'em, it's reality.

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