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03-27-2011, 06:52 PM
  #529
ShotScore*
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Philadelphia,Pa.
Country: Italy
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Do you really not get how *ing terrible your argument is. Eric Desjardins wasn't good because of the players he was on the ice with, he was good because... he was good.

It's also abundantly clear that you're so clueless that you cannot comprehend that Timonen had a career prior to when he arrived in Philadelphia.

Timonen came to Philadelphia when he was 32 years old.

Lets look at Desjardins from 32 forward with the Flyers:
32: 65 GP 6-19-25 -1
33: 79GP 8-24-32 +30
34: 48GP 1-11-12 +11
35: lockout
36: 45GP 4-20-24 +3

Lets look at Timonen from 32 forward:
32: 80GP 8-36-44 0
33: 77GP 3-40-43 +19
34: 82GP 6-33-39 -2
35: 73GP 5-28-33 +14 (so far)

What is abundantly clear is that you are completely incapable of grasping the fact that we got Rico during his prime years, whereas we got Timonen here on the back end of his career. That being said, Timonen is many many miles better than Desjardins was at this age. Moreover, Timonen had a career prior to coming to Philadelphia that you apparently are too dumb to actually acknowledge and/or be aware of.

Rico certainly had a better run with the Flyers... which ain't *ing shocking, because he came to the Flyers when he was 25. Doesn't mean Rico is demonstrably superior to Timonen just because he spent those years with a different organization.

And, you're right, the different between the play of Timonen and Desjardins at age 35 is night and day: Timonen is a LOT *ing better than Desjardins was at this age.



Those stats ranked Carle higher than Timonen because of the *ing alphabet dude.

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

I'll let you work it out.

The point of that post was that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, and you're incapable of handling the rather mundane task of reading a straightforward statistical spreadsheet.

OK let me see if we can try this again....

Did you watch Eric Desjardins play for us in his prime? Yes or no? Judging by your replies, I would put money on it that you never did.

Anyone who saw Eric Desjardins in his prime would NEVER say that Kimmo Timonen is his equal. NEVER.

As for the stats I cited being ordered alphabetically take a look at this Jester...

This is for points among defensemen..

YEARS SEASON TEAM POSITION COUNTRY STATUS REPORT

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295 results: 2010-2011 - REGULAR SEASON - DEFENSEMAN - POINTS - TOTAL POINTS
LEGEND
Summary | Assists | Bios | Division | Faceoff Leaders | Faceoffs | Goals | Home | Penalties | Plus/Minus | Points | Real-time Stats | Road | Shooting % Leaders | Shooting % | Shootouts | Special Teams | Time On Ice
Player Team Pos GP G A P +/- ESP SHP PPP HmP RdP DvP ODvP P/G
1 Lubomir Visnovsky ANA D 74 15 46 61 16 35 0 26 38 23 16 45 .82
2 Nicklas Lidstrom DET D 75 14 45 59 -1 20 1 38 31 28 9 50 .79
3 Keith Yandle PHX D 77 11 47 58 11 32 1 25 32 26 19 39 .75
4 Dustin Byfuglien ATL D 74 19 33 52 -3 29 0 23 29 23 10 42 .70
5 Tobias Enstrom ATL D 69 10 41 51 -9 22 1 28 24 27 9 42 .74
6 Kris Letang PIT D 76 8 40 48 13 24 1 23 22 26 12 36 .63
7 Christian Ehrhoff VAN D 72 11 36 47 14 18 1 28 21 26 13 34 .65
8 James Wisniewski NYI, MTL D 69 10 37 47 -15 20 0 27 19 28 15 32 .68
9 Shea Weber NSH D 76 16 30 46 13 29 1 16 27 19 13 33 .61
10 Erik Karlsson OTT D 73 13 32 45 -28 23 1 21 20 25 13 32 .62
11 Dan Boyle SJS D 70 6 38 44 -2 18 0 26 22 22 12 32 .63
12 Tomas Kaberle TOR, BOS D 74 4 40 44 3 20 0 24 21 23 10 34 .59
13 Brent Burns MIN D 73 16 27 43 -10 29 1 13 21 22 12 31 .59
14 John-Michael Liles COL D 72 6 37 43 -9 25 0 18 21 22 12 31 .60
15 Alex Goligoski PIT, DAL D 75 13 29 42 23 21 0 21 22 20 15 27 .56
16 Zdeno Chara BOS D 74 13 29 42 28 26 2 14 28 14 12 30 .57
17 Alex Pietrangelo STL D 72 11 30 41 16 27 1 13 21 20 9 32 .57
18 Jack Johnson LAK D 75 5 36 41 -17 13 1 27 20 21 10 31 .55
19 Brent Seabrook CHI D 74 5 36 41 0 22 2 17 28 13 12 29 .55
20 Brian Rafalski DET D 56 4 37 41 11 26 0 15 24 17 10 31 .73
21 Dennis Wideman FLA, WSH D 74 10 30 40 -20 18 0 22 25 15 13 27 .54
22 Duncan Keith CHI D 74 6 34 40 0 18 1 21 24 16 8 32 .54
23 Drew Doughty LAK D 69 11 27 38 14 24 0 14 18 20 6 32 .55
24 Mark Giordano CGY D 77 7 31 38 -10 16 0 22 18 20 14 24 .49
25 Niklas Kronwall DET D 75 11 26 37 6 24 0 13 17 20 9 28 .49
26 Ryan Suter NSH D 64 3 34 37 27 21 1 15 20 17 11 26 .58
27 Matt Carle PHI D 74 1 35 36 25 34 0 2 18 18 10 26 .49
28 Jordan Leopold BUF D 71 13 22 35 -11 24 0 11 18 17 8 27 .49
29 P.K. Subban MTL D 71 11 24 35 -6 20 0 15 21 14 9 26 .49
30 Joe Corvo CAR D 75 10 25 35 -17 13 1 21 18 17 7 28 .47
31 Tyler Myers BUF D 73 10 25 35 -3 22 0 13 15 20 8 27 .48
32 Kevin Shattenkirk COL, STL D 65 8 27 35 -7 23 0 12 20 15 9 26 .54
33 Cam Fowler ANA D 69 8 26 34 -25 16 0 18 18 16 11 23 .49
34 Anton Babchuk CAR, CGY D 77 11 22 33 11 18 2 13 18 15 3 30 .43
35 Kimmo Timonen PHI D 74 5 28 33 16 18 2 13 22 11 10 23 .45


This is for Plus/Minus among defensemen...

Player Team Pos GP G A P +/- Home +/- Road +/- Div +/- Other Div +/- Team GF Team PPGF Team GA Team PPGA
1 Toni Lydman ANA D 71 3 21 24 34 28 6 8 26 84 8 79 37
2 Adam McQuaid BOS D 60 3 11 14 29 19 10 12 17 52 0 29 6
3 Dan Hamhuis VAN D 62 6 17 23 29 14 15 10 19 75 9 50 13
4 Brian Campbell CHI D 57 4 21 25 29 14 15 10 19 69 14 38 12
5 Zdeno Chara BOS D 74 13 29 42 28 16 12 11 17 104 25 76 25
6 Kevin Bieksa VAN D 59 6 13 19 28 17 11 10 18 71 12 46 15
7 Andrej Meszaros PHI D 73 6 20 26 27 6 21 10 17 80 12 59 18
8 Ryan Suter NSH D 64 3 34 37 27 22 5 2 25 89 28 47 13
9 Matt Carle PHI D 74 1 35 36 25 12 13 3 22 90 9 62 6
10 Alex Goligoski PIT, DAL D 75 13 29 42 23 4 19 3 20 103 30 59 9
11 Andrew Ference BOS D 62 2 11 13 23 17 6 14 9 57 3 45 14
12 Adrian Aucoin PHX D 70 3 19 22 19 7 12 5 14 69 2 74 26
13 John Carlson WSH D 76 6 26 32 18 4 14 10 8 86 21 61 14
14 Michael Sauer NYR D 70 2 10 12 18 7 11 4 14 45 1 35 9
15 Ryan McDonagh NYR D 34 0 8 8 17 13 4 8 9 34 0 21 4
16 Alex Pietrangelo STL D 72 11 30 41 16 5 11 -1 17 94 22 70 14
17 Lubomir Visnovsky ANA D 74 15 46 61 16 16 0 5 11 133 48 72 3
18 Kimmo Timonen PHI D 74 5 28 33 16 1 15 4 12 98 32 80 30


This is for real time stats among defensemen..

1 Anton Babchuk CAR, CGY D 77 18 148 71 40 18 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 124 11 8.9
2 Jay Bouwmeester CGY D 77 70 126 52 57 22 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 118 4 3.4
3 Mark Giordano CGY D 77 130 183 89 40 22 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 153 7 4.6
4 Keith Yandle PHX D 77 29 93 94 59 29 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 184 11 6.0
5 Karl Alzner WSH D 76 98 116 19 36 21 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 62 2 3.2
6 John Carlson WSH D 76 66 146 51 71 54 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 124 6 4.8
7 Kris Letang PIT D 76 157 101 89 47 36 1 0 1 100.0 0.0 215 8 3.7
8 Chris Phillips OTT D 76 108 142 36 48 26 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 76 1 1.3
9 Luke Schenn TOR D 76 236 161 52 86 33 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 118 4 3.4
10 Mike Weaver FLA D 76 91 126 29 26 45 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 49 2 4.1
11 Shea Weber NSH D 76 205 105 112 48 56 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 239 16 6.7
12 Brett Clark TBL D 75 111 142 49 46 19 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 82 8 9.8
13 Joe Corvo CAR D 75 51 112 57 58 56 0 1 1 0.0 0.0 170 10 5.9
14 Tom Gilbert EDM D 75 62 162 47 86 41 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 100 5 5.0
15 Tim Gleason CAR D 75 198 126 51 38 16 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 79 2 2.5
16 Alex Goligoski PIT, DAL D 75 67 94 74 51 14 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 140 13 9.3
17 Andy Greene NJD D 75 45 150 36 32 34 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 82 3 3.7
18 Ron Hainsey ATL D 75 50 163 40 39 30 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 76 3 3.9
19 Jack Johnson LAK D 75 68 127 99 54 15 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 144 5 3.5
20 Kevin Klein NSH D 75 119 164 39 57 29 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 92 2 2.2
21 Niklas Kronwall DET D 75 109 123 52 46 24 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 129 11 8.5
22 Nicklas Lidstrom DET D 75 45 86 86 31 30 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 159 14 8.8
23 Johnny Oduya ATL D 75 55 143 43 43 44 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 82 2 2.4
24 Rob Scuderi LAK D 75 58 115 28 54 21 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 44 2 4.5
25 Henrik Tallinder NJD D 75 62 72 39 42 23 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 93 4 4.3
26 Greg Zanon MIN D 75 156 193 30 26 20 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 47 0 0.0
27 Francois Beauchemin TOR, ANA D 74 106 164 51 82 32 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 101 4 4.0
28 Dustin Byfuglien ATL D 74 133 62 133 52 79 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 323 19 5.9
29 Matt Carle PHI D 74 42 142 49 50 32 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 111 1 0.9
30 Zdeno Chara BOS D 74 143 103 91 56 28 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 240 13 5.4
31 Braydon Coburn PHI D 74 159 122 50 46 29 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 104 2 1.9
32 Trevor Daley DAL D 74 28 110 73 40 33 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 120 8 6.7
33 Cody Franson NSH D 74 77 50 61 37 27 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 144 8 5.6
34 Dan Girardi NYR D 74 179 217 44 48 30 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 104 4 3.8
35 Victor Hedman TBL D 74 52 84 53 63 46 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 101 3 3.0
36 Tomas Kaberle TOR, BOS D 74 33 129 58 66 29 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 113 4 3.5
37 Duncan Keith CHI D 74 38 139 91 78 51 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 159 6 3.8
38 Shane O'Brien NSH D 74 160 74 19 45 26 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 47 2 4.3
39 Robyn Regehr CGY D 74 166 133 39 39 9 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 68 2 2.9
40 Brent Seabrook CHI D 74 205 137 61 67 26 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 115 5 4.3
41 Dennis Seidenberg BOS D 74 149 151 57 26 10 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 156 6 3.8
42 Kimmo Timonen PHI D 74 85 158 65 37 41 0 1 1 0.0 0.0 132 5 3.8

This is the Summary of all stats for defensemen..

1 Lubomir Visnovsky ANA D 74 15 46 61 16 20 4 0 3 2 138 10.9 24:27 26.3 0.0
2 Nicklas Lidstrom DET D 75 14 45 59 -1 20 7 0 1 1 159 8.8 23:37 26.6 0.0
3 Keith Yandle PHX D 77 11 47 58 11 66 3 0 0 0 184 6.0 24:20 29.3 0.0
4 Dustin Byfuglien ATL D 74 19 33 52 -3 73 7 0 6 3 323 5.9 23:25 25.4 0.0
5 Tobias Enstrom ATL D 69 10 41 51 -9 52 6 0 0 0 109 9.2 24:03 27.3 0.0
6 Kris Letang PIT D 76 8 40 48 13 99 4 0 2 1 215 3.7 24:06 25.1 100.0
7 Christian Ehrhoff VAN D 72 11 36 47 14 50 6 0 1 0 180 6.1 23:57 28.2 0.0
8 James Wisniewski NYI, MTL D 69 10 37 47 -15 36 7 0 2 1 143 7.0 22:52 24.9 0.0
9 Shea Weber NSH D 76 16 30 46 13 54 6 1 3 1 239 6.7 25:19 29.1 0.0
10 Erik Karlsson OTT D 73 13 32 45 -28 50 4 0 4 0 175 7.4 23:42 24.8 0.0
11 Dan Boyle SJS D 70 6 38 44 -2 44 4 0 1 0 187 3.2 26:31 29.1 0.0
12 Tomas Kaberle TOR, BOS D 74 4 40 44 3 18 0 0 1 0 113 3.5 22:13 27.4 0.0
13 Brent Burns MIN D 73 16 27 43 -10 92 7 0 3 1 144 11.1 24:47 31.9 50.0
14 John-Michael Liles COL D 72 6 37 43 -9 35 3 0 0 0 160 3.8 21:59 26.7 0.0
15 Alex Goligoski PIT, DAL D 75 13 29 42 23 40 6 0 4 1 140 9.3 21:55 24.4 0.0
16 Zdeno Chara BOS D 74 13 29 42 28 84 8 1 1 0 240 5.4 25:35 29.3 0.0
17 Alex Pietrangelo STL D 72 11 30 41 16 19 4 0 1 0 148 7.4 21:49 28.2 0.0
18 Jack Johnson LAK D 75 5 36 41 -17 44 3 0 0 0 144 3.5 23:23 26.1 0.0
19 Brent Seabrook CHI D 74 5 36 41 0 47 3 0 1 0 115 4.3 24:28 29.7 0.0
20 Brian Rafalski DET D 56 4 37 41 11 18 0 0 0 0 91 4.4 20:19 24.1 0.0
21 Dennis Wideman FLA, WSH D 74 10 30 40 -20 39 9 0 1 1 159 6.3 24:08 26.4 100.0
22 Duncan Keith CHI D 74 6 34 40 0 20 3 1 1 0 159 3.8 26:51 28.9 0.0
23 Drew Doughty LAK D 69 11 27 38 14 62 5 0 3 0 126 8.7 25:41 27.9 0.0
24 Mark Giordano CGY D 77 7 31 38 -10 65 4 0 1 0 153 4.6 23:04 30.4 0.0
25 Niklas Kronwall DET D 75 11 26 37 6 34 5 0 3 2 129 8.5 22:51 28.3 0.0
26 Ryan Suter NSH D 64 3 34 37 27 52 0 0 1 0 107 2.8 25:11 28.5 0.0
27 Matt Carle PHI D 74 1 35 36 25 19 0 0 0 0 111 0.9 21:43 27.6 0.0
31 Tyler Myers BUF D 73 10 25 35 -3 36 3 0 5 2 111 9.0 22:21 27.9 0.0
32 Kevin Shattenkirk COL, STL D 65 8 27 35 -7 30 2 0 1 0 99 8.1 20:06 25.8 0.0
33 Cam Fowler ANA D 69 8 26 34 -25 20 4 0 3 2 112 7.1 22:17 25.6 0.0
34 Anton Babchuk CAR, CGY D 77 11 22 33 11 32 6 1 2 1 124 8.9 16:25 21.1 0.0
35 Kimmo Timonen PHI D 74 5 28 33 16 34 1 2 0 0 132 3.8 22:33 28.2 0.0

Do you see this Jester?

These stats are not kept alphabetically, either by player's name or team.

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