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04-20-2011, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by vancityluongo View Post
You guys can kick me out too for this comment, but the bickering in this thread has just made my day after a certain hockey game.

Seriously, a guy creates a fake account so he can enjoy the ATD without all the drama he had to deal with as commissioner, and now that he's caught, he gets "exiled" from the board? Really? I've always openly been at VanI's side until the end, but I think it's ridiculous to see the Colin Campbell wannabes declaring life time bans...yo, this is the guy that was forced out of this draft, and had a hand in the end in four teams. Good work, ATD police.

My two cents for whatever its worth is that no team with any association to VanI should be allowed to have a vote, and maybe VanI shoudn't comment on any series'. But him single handedly ruining the "integrity of the ATD"? That's ridiculous. As controversial as this will be, the integrity of the ATD was tarnished when every original GM but Leaf Lander (who is a trooper) opted out before this point. It's still a great pass time and learning experience, but IMO some of the comments in this thread are over the top. Probably include this one with it.

edit: I do agree though that it is incredibly ironic, hilarious, and fitting all at the same time that VanI was the biggets advocate of getting this board out of the Fantasy section. Nope.
Think of it in real life terms: If one owner of an NHL team was found to actually have under the table deals with 3 other NHL teams, and thus have a vested interest in those teams, or worse, having a say in how trades went for that team, he could quite easily create trades that, on the surface, don't look like they are colluded trades, but are a very clear win for the team he actually owns. This owner is found out later. Not only is the NHL now the laughingstock of the entire world, but the integrity of the NHL itself is shot to hell and back, and EVERYTHING this owner has ever had his hands involved with in the NHL is now questioned as legit. This is something the NHL would *never* fully recover from. Obviously, the situations are not really comparable here, but the principal is still the same, and *because* VI has had such a large hand in getting the ATD to where it is today, it makes this all the more worse.

And don't fool yourself.. he made those fake accounts to reach his own goals for the draft.. his goals, that only he cared about, and they ended up affecting the entire draft. Think about it. All the players that ZM/Sabre/etc. drafted, those players may have went to other GMs that were looking at those players. Even though VI's teams didn't go very far, his actions have had much further reaching effects than everyone is suggesting here - the playoffs of every ATD that VI has been involved with with proxy teams are now compromised, and all could have gone entirely different. We will never know now.

Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I have no idea if VI wants back in after all this. But if he's not a mod, and if he's not running it, and if he's got just one account, and (most importantly) if his presence isn't causing other GMs to stay away, maybe it would work in the future.
This is the biggest concern. People see what VI did, and no longer trust the integrity of GMs in the draft, and stay away from it. If VI could get away with it, then anyone can. It's actually not very hard to maintain a couple of aliases on the internet. Believe me, I know from personal experience. I did something like this a long, long time ago, and had a lot of people fooled for years. Not something I'm proud of, but it's something that is possible.

Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Although I thoroughly revel in the research and competitive side of the ATD, I agree with the argument that it's all in fun.

The dictionary defines "fun" as the following:

What I cannot reconcile is how creating alternate accounts and co-GMing with said alternate accounts is fun by the above definition- for VI or anyone else. Whether he intended to do it or not, VI undoubtedly gained an unfair competitive advantage, ruining any possibility at enjoyment for the other GMs involved. Imagine if this charade had extended into the playoffs.

To make matters worse, he managed to rope in a (so far) innocent rookie GM as part of his manipulation. That this occurred after his diva-ish behavior drove other potential GMs away at the very beginning is just unfathomable to me.

As was said, how can we be sure VI hasn't done this before? We can't. I cannot look back on previous ATDs with the same sort of enjoyment, nor can I look forward to others, unsure that VI or someone else has more skillfully perpetrated the same trick.

I'm not going to participate in this again. Clearly, VI wants the ATD done on his terms, and damn everyone else. I say give it to him, and let him invent 39 accounts to fill out the balance of the teams next time. Only then will he be truly happy.
You probably won't be the only one when all is said and done.

Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I'm not saying it is anybody's fault. The mods had no reason to check IPs because nobody had a clue.

Unless you're going to continually check IPs for all further ATDs, it can happen again.... and even if you do, there are still ways around it.
There are many, many ways around it for those who are committed enough to getting away with it. Checking IP addresses to figure something like this out is equivalent to knocking on a suspect's door and asking them if they murdered the guy. Proxies are really, really easy to use, and you can always do the draft from someone else's house, and claim that you are friends with that person. Who would know otherwise?

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