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05-25-2011, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Selanne and Ullman are similar in value (towards the bottom of the top-100 all-time), yes, but this makes me wonder.... do you think Bathgate is a top-30 player? Or do you think Messier belongs down in the 60s?
I think both should be taken in the 40s.

You brought up the fact that they played on the same time as a method of comparison, and I showed that Cashman ranked higher on the Bruins and more often. What happened to that?
Cashman played with Esposito and Orr. That's the only reason he put up points.

In the ATD, he is one of the more likely first liners to get thrown off his game.
Odd that you said exactly the opposite when commenting on one of my earlier series. What's changed?

Agree. And Neilson played over twice as long against a deeper talent pool. 70 spots from 200th-270th is significant. No doubt Stuart is better.
He played twice as long when the average career length was twice as long....

Trying to break it down into components like this is just glossing over the fact that these are two players whose careers overlapped six seasons, and one received much better recognition as an overall player, despite inferior offensive output. You know damn well what this means!
As Sturm brought up earlier, Egan's penchant for punching referees hurt his award and all-star voting.

- McGuire's can can claim a small edge in net and a razor-thin one on the blueline. (this boils down to Bourque/Green over Clancy/Day, we're talking 10th & 300th over 50th & 200th, it's an edge but a pretty small one) It's not enough.
There's a very fair argument to be made that Bourque is the 5th best player of all time. He's miles ahead of Clancy.

As Regina has already admitted, Hod Stuart is also better than Hap Day. That gives a substantial edge at the top end.

Our #3s are about equal. Ted Green having a better peak, and Jim Neilson having better longevity.

Our #4s are arguable.

That is a pretty subtantial edge on the blueline.

- Don't be fooled by McGuire's supposed "PP advantage". Bathgate has been touted as some sort of unstoppable ATD PP weapon, but it's getting carried away.
The two best PP players in this series are Ray Bourque and Andy Bathgate.

Outside of Clancy, your PP blueliners are pretty weak.

- Regina has the better PK units.
Laprade and Mahovlich are the two best PK forwards, and Bourque and Stuart are the 2 best PK defensemen. I really doubt you've got a PK edge.

- The Monsters are relying fairly heavily, for a team so deep in the playoffs, on forwards who did practically nothing in the playoffs. Bathgate, Dunderdale, Laprade, and 2/3 of the 4th line have poor resumes in the playoffs relative to their overall reputations. This should be a factor in a long series and after getting this far on the backs of their defense and goalie.
Andy Bathgate was a fine play-off performer, as I have shown numerous times. His goals per game average goes up in the play-offs, and when he was finally moved to teams that were good enough to advance in the play-offs, he was an very strong performer.

Edgar Laprade played for a team that only made the play-offs twice, but both times he played in the play-offs he was better than he was in the regular season.

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